GrantMcscott

Breakdown of Fees

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Do not know if this is useful but thought I would post for anyone thinking about doing a self build.

 

Here is a break down of my fee's I have to pay before I start building.  My help someone trying to estimate their costs.  This is for a 4 bedroom house 280 m2 detached house

 

The legal work was complex

 

Fee Payable To Payable When Amount
Local Authority Planning Fee East Ayshire Council Planning Submission £500.00
Architectual Plans ATW Planning Submission £2,375.00
Building Control Drawings ATW Building Warrant submitted £2,375.00
Egineering drawings ???? Building Warrant submitted £1,100.00
Building warrant East Ayshire Council Building Warrant submitted £2,228.40
Additional Security Fee BuildLoan At the start of the loan - non-refundable £1,120.00
Build Store Arrangement Fee BuildLoan Applied for mortgage - non-refundable £695.00
Completion Fee Newcastle Building Society Fee has been paid - non-refundable £995.00
Product Reservation Fee Newcastle Building Society Fee has been paid - non-refundable £199.00
Valuation Fee Newcastle Building Society Fee has been paid - non-refundable £340.00
Mortgage Discharge Fee Newcastle Building Society At the end of the Loan - non-refundable £125.00
Solicitors Fee Wallace Quinn At end of conveyancing £2,116.00
Structual Warranty Build Zone Through Out the build £3,940.00
Site Insurance   Before Completion £342.12

 

Thanks

 

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Wow - over £18,400! Thats a lot of money for fees before anything even starts but I guess it is best to be aware of these fees; better aware than surprised when they appear. Thanks Grant.

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That seems a bit pricey. Our build is three bedrooms so smaller than yours, but our design, structural engineer, building warrant fee, planning, self build insurance (two years), mortgage arrangement fee, legal fees were £9k. This included about £1.5k to decroft our site.

 

I almost went down the Buildstore route and Newcastle Building Society and it was very expensive, when I spoke to the adviser they just continued to list fees over the phone.

 

Did you look at the Scottish Building Society?

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Yes I agree wish I never went with buildstore as they are not very good and very expensive with fees that were not mentioned.  

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Aren’t the build store fees only 695?

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1 hour ago, Sjk said:

Aren’t the build store fees only 695?

Not sure if this is build store or the building society, but I was quoted for this 'mortgage insurance fee' and it was probably the reason I didn't purse build store further.

 

I'm not sure what they really add, apart from being able to broker some lenders which don't deal direct with the customers. With more lenders providing self build products I can see their market share diminishing.

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Interesting numbers, My comments in red.

 

There seems to be quite a lot rolled in upfront, where in other places it gets paid in chunks. I would say several thou relates to charges which are paid up front - presumably they are locking in their fees so they do not lose if the project fails! Suspect that down here I would have paid several k of that later, but perhaps saved a couple of thou by avoiding Buildstore.

 

I see that there is quite a lot left out, such as a Topographic Survey and 57 varieties of ologist if you needed any.

 

On 11/01/2019 at 15:31, GrantMcscott said:

Do not know if this is useful but thought I would post for anyone thinking about doing a self build.

 

Here is a break down of my fee's I have to pay before I start building.  My help someone trying to estimate their costs.  This is for a 4 bedroom house 280 m2 detached house

 

The legal work was complex

 

Fee Payable To Payable When Amount
Local Authority Planning Fee (Fairly normal) East Ayshire Council     Planning Submission    

£500.00

Architectual Plans

(Not cheap but not extortionate)

ATW Planning Submission     £2,375.00

Building Control Drawings

(Not cheap but not extortionate imo)

ATW Building Warrant Submitted £2,375.00

Egineering drawings

(Not cheap but not extortionate)

????     Building Warrant Submitted £1,100.00

Building warrant

(Much more than England I think, where things are charged as the BCO work is done - is this to cover the whole process)

East Ayshire Council     Building Warrant Submitted
 
£2,228.40
Additional Security Fee
(This looks like the Mortgage Guarantee that used to relate to high loan % - eg £25 for each 1000 over 80%. Do these still exist for normal house purchases?)
BuildLoan At the start of the loan - non-refundable £1,120.00

Build Store Arrangement Fee

(Normal ish broker fee)

BuildLoan Applied for mortgage - non-refundable £695.00

Completion Fee

(What I would expect for a BTL mortgage where there was an interest rate incentive)

Newcastle Building Society Fee has been paid - non-refundable £995.00

Product Reservation Fee

(Normal ish in BTL world)

Newcastle Building Society Fee has been paid - non-refundable £199.00

Valuation Fee

(Standard rate)

Newcastle Building Society Fee has been paid - non-refundable £340.00

Mortgage Discharge Fee

(Standard I think)

Newcastle Building Society At the end of the Loan - non-refundable £125.00

Solicitors Fee

(Not cheap but as you say complex)

Wallace Quinn At end of conveyancing £2,116.00

Structual Warranty

(Ouch. Is this the equivalent of NHBC 10 year guarantee but all up front? BZ main profit area I suspect - do they have to identify commission?

Build Zone Through Out the build £3,940.00

Site Insurance

(Not a bad number)

  Before Completion £342.12

 

Thanks

 

 

This from @recoveringacademic may be an interesting comparison:

 

Ferdinand

Edited by Ferdinand

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The building warrant in Scotland covers all of the BCO inspections. There is nothing further to pay unless you need the warrant to be extended which is circa £100 for a 12 month extension. 

 

The structual warranty is indeed the equivalent of the NHBC 10 year warranty. A lot of money but sadly essential in most cases if you need a mortgage. An expensive piece of paper IMO with no real value and the inspections that come with it are a bit of a joke. 

 

The additional security fee is to cover the fact that staged payments are being made in advance I believe. I remember the mortgage indemnity policies. Had one for my first ever house bought with a 100% mortgage 🙂  

 

 

 

 

 

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On 19/01/2019 at 23:53, Thedreamer said:

Not sure if this is build store or the building society, but I was quoted for this 'mortgage insurance fee' and it was probably the reason I didn't purse build store further.

 

I'm not sure what they really add, apart from being able to broker some lenders which don't deal direct with the customers. With more lenders providing self build products I can see their market share diminishing.

 

So apparently this is insurance for the lender, you will still have this even if you choose arrears.

Edited by Sjk

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5 hours ago, Sjk said:

 

So apparently this is insurance for the lender, you will still have this even if you choose arrears.

 

Nope, didn't have this with our self build mortgage, just arrangement £995 fee and had to pay about £250 for a surveyors valuation report. 

 

https://www.scottishbs.co.uk/sites/default/files/downloads/Specialist Mortgage Rates 17.9.18.pdf

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9 minutes ago, Thedreamer said:

 

Nope, didn't have this with our self build mortgage, just arrangement £995 fee and had to pay about £250 for a surveyors valuation report. 

 

https://www.scottishbs.co.uk/sites/default/files/downloads/Specialist Mortgage Rates 17.9.18.pdf

 

Sorry meant if you go through BuildStore

 

Tbf although the fees on that are low, the rate is 5.99% with a painful 3% penalty if you repay in 3 years. 

 

 

 

Edited by Sjk

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2 hours ago, Sjk said:

 

Sorry meant if you go through BuildStore

 

Tbf although the fees on that are low, the rate is 5.99% with a painful 3% penalty if you repay in 3 years. 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately restricted as building in the Islands, the further north you go the less lenders are available. The product will switch to a standard residential rate once a completion certificate is achieved with no exit penalty. I'm not needing a huge mortgage probably in the region of £70,000 and I've only recently drawn down 1st instalment of £24,000 and have enough to take the build pass 1st fix, so will probably being borrowing at that rate for 3 or 4 months.😉

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On 20/01/2019 at 04:24, Ferdinand said:

Interesting numbers, My comments in red.

 

 

 

Ferdinand

One this I did not mention in the Architectural fees are there was a SEPA report done for flooding, test holes dug and septic and soak away design.  Attached is a drawing of the house it is for. 

up to date drawing.pdf

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On 12/01/2019 at 10:55, GrantMcscott said:

Yes I agree wish I never went with buildstore as they are not very good and very expensive with fees that were not mentioned.  

 

The big advantage they have is the accelerator mortgages give you money at the start of the stage (hence why you need the insurance for the lender as it will allow them to complete the project and protect their money) - whilst it might seem that the fees are high, you should see some of the quotes we have for development finance!

Being able to pay for things like timber kits and windows upfront really takes the pressure off a contractor or self builder in terms of cashflow, it's well worth the fee imo

(that's a big house you are doing too, can't imagine it'll be that cheap to build 

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1 minute ago, the_r_sole said:

 

The big advantage they have is the accelerator mortgages give you money at the start of the stage (hence why you need the insurance for the lender as it will allow them to complete the project and protect their money) - whilst it might seem that the fees are high, you should see some of the quotes we have for development finance!

Being able to pay for things like timber kits and windows upfront really takes the pressure off a contractor or self builder in terms of cashflow, it's well worth the fee imo

(that's a big house you are doing too, can't imagine it'll be that cheap to build 

Hi, Yes not cheap

by the way the mortgage is areas as there was only one lender in Scotland that would do advance payment and they would not lend due to location. 

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This and other threads showing upfront costs remind me what a good deal a plot with planning permission represents particularly when the plot is level and does not introduce design challenges for the foundations.

 

My costs were:

     
       
Conveyancing   700  
( £450 legal + land registry fees )      
Technical Drawings   1300  
Private Build Control   740  
Self Build Insurance 15 months   521.17  
Total   £3,261.17  Ex vat
       
Included with plot purchase      
       
       
Detailed planning permission.      
Regional Georgian architect's house design      
( for conservation area )      
Topographical survey      
Historical trench dig      
Newt/Eco warrior survey      
Roadside culvert drainage survey      
Flood risk assessment      
SUDS roof drainage plan      
Brick panel to satisfy planning condition      
     

 

Prior to the foundation dig I skipped an exploratory foundation test dig, soil sampling and structural engineered foundation design on the basis that the historical report indicated the land was trouble free ancient pasture and by employing the same private BC inspector who was overseeing another self build just 30m away I got a nod & wink that the rumoured clay was in fact silt with decent drainage and lowish heave characteristics. We dug, discovered, smiled and poured in £2500 of concrete.

 

Edited by epsilonGreedy
Add self build site insurance cost.

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On 11/01/2019 at 20:27, GrantMcscott said:

Hi, I am building just outside Muirkirk in east Ayrshire

so that's the 'u' shaped ruin in the middle of no-where 😀. it will be nice and peaceful. i don't like too many neighbours either, however,......... much land with it?

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1 hour ago, Simplysimon said:

but, @epsilonGreedy i would suggest there is a difference in the prices of the plot/land

 

 

In my case 0.22 of an acre with planning for a 1500 sq ft house.

 

In the past month there have been three threads where quoted pre-dig start up costs were £60k, £28k and £18k. I felt it was time that someone stepped forward with an example to illustrate there is a different cost path providing:

  1. A plot purchaser does not enter a fresh architectural re-design/planning cycle.
  2. The plot does not present difficult ground conditions that demand special engineered foundations.
  3. Self build financial products can be avoided.

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We didn’t have huge fees either because we bought a plot where the planning permission and building warrant were in place and in fact the foundations were already laid and the water supply was connected. That’s probably not that common however but we thus avoided paying for PP, building warrant, main structural engineer, architect, muck away and probably a few other things such as surveys. The downside was that we were pretty much tied to the house design although we were able to alter the internal layout and construction method. 

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