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Scottish Building Regs - WC


ash_scotland88

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Excuse the long post and the bit of waffling but I'm looking for some advice regarding Scottish Building Regs and adding a toilet to an extension where there's not one on that floor.

 

So my understanding is that if you want to build a WC then it needs to be a certain size, show you can add a shower at a later date if required. Essentially make it future proof for disability access. But I was bored over the christmas break and was reading up on the building regs.

2017 Building standards technical handbook says in 3.12.5:

  • If it is intended to install a new sanitary facility on the principal living level or entrance storey of a dwelling and there is not already an accessible sanitary facility of that type within the dwelling, the first new facility should be in accordance with the guidance given in clauses 3.12.3 and 3.12.4.

 

So if our current bathroom (on first floor) fits the guidance for front and side accesible loading would we be ok as it does not stipulate that it has to be on the same level, as my understanding has been

 

3.12.0 also says 

  • Although not recommending that sanitary facilities on the principal living level of a dwelling be designed to an optimum standard for wheelchair users, it should be possible for most people to use these facilities unassisted and in privacy.

 

The room I am looking at is about 800-850wide by 1600 length, the door would be to one end of the length. Taking this into account do you think the below could be succesfully argued?....

       "Referring to 3.12.0 and taking this aboard the WC has been designed to maximise space by the proposed use of a pocket door over a swing. The occupants further propose the installation of a comfort height WC that will benefit those of restricted mobility. The WC room size may not be designed optimally to full wheel chair users but all care and design has been made to make the WC as accessible “as reasonably practical” to those of limited mobility and improving amenity of the dwelling. Not including a WC on this level may be of a hindrance in the future and benefits the comfort and usability of the dwelling for the current occupants and guests while increasing the practicality and desirability of a family 3bedroom home."

 

Does the 1100 spacing infront of the toilet is that still a standard that needs to be fulfilled? Or am i simply missing an other chapter or cross reference?

 

Thanks,

 

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I thought the activity space was 1000mm long, you would have to find a very small toilet indeed to fit a toilet and the activity space in a 1600mm long space.

 

The obvious question, if this is a new extension, can you not find more room to make it comply?

 

And swing the door outward so it does not swing over the activity space.

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Oh I did mine last year... converted the downstairs bedroom extension to a WC and utility room. 

Im glad I wasn’t as careful as you with my reading as I thought it didn’t need any BC input at all from my cursory glacé at the Scottish regs.

glad I did though as an extra downstairs loo is a godsend especially if you have teenagers who shower for 45 minutes minimum 

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if making a disabled w/c then look at regs for that 

all depends how nasty they going to be 

there are 2 types full disabled and ambulent toilet

your sizes wont, comply for full dasabled 

check the regs 

2m x 2m from memory 

wheel chair must be able do complete turn round in there 

you will find pklans on there for what is acceptable .or got tywfords and look at disability w/c  washroom kit --there is a plan on there as well

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I was translating the meaning of accessible as disabled, especially in the regards of front/side access.

I have found a 600mm deep comfort height toilet.

If a door swung outwards it would be into a vestibule area blocking other an door, which would not open into the WC door if left open. If that makes sense?

The current extension is pushed to every MM almost possible, could go longer but need to check build lines, and the WC would carve out space from an other room if it is possible so don't really want to make it much bigger.

 

I know Part M in England is a lot smaller than up here, from memory, started reading the wrong regs to begin with.

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Don't over complicate it.  Forget "disabled"

 

You have to provide an "accessible" facility, and Scottish building regs define "accessible" which basically means a certain "activity space" in front of or beside each facility with nothing (except a few allowable things) intruding into that activity space, and a certain minimum width of door opening,  That is all you have to comply with. 

 

Nothing stopping you swinging the door outwards, and reversing it to swing inwards after completion :ph34r:

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3 hours ago, ProDave said:

Don't over complicate it.  Forget "disabled"

 

You have to provide an "accessible" facility, and Scottish building regs define "accessible" which basically means a certain "activity space" in front of or beside each facility with nothing (except a few allowable things) intruding into that activity space, and a certain minimum width of door opening,  That is all you have to comply with. 

 

Nothing stopping you swinging the door outwards, and reversing it to swing inwards after completion :ph34r:

Cheers, that's the sort of explanation/ understanding I was looking for. That these accessible activity spaces are in fact the "legal minimum"

Can activity spaces overlap? So can the wash hand basin activity space also be part of the toilet activity space?

Looking at the document saved on my phone it's 1100 Infront of the toilet by 800 wide. Is there a general rule for over all WC room size?

 

I might need to post a picture of the space and door positions to demonstrate it.

 

Is there a general guideline for external wall thickness too?

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It's all in the regs. Some things can overhang into the activity space like a basin I believe and they might be able to overlap, but a door cannot swing over them.

 

The other one often missed, is the WC activity space does not need to be in front of it, it can be beside it, or if in front it does not need to be in line with it's centreline it can be at an angle.

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1 hour ago, ProDave said:

Some things can overhang into the activity space like a basin I believe and they might be able to overlap, but a door cannot swing over them.

 

Activity spaces can overlap with each other and with the manoeuvring space needed for entrance. The door swing can overlap the activity spaces but not the manoeuvring space.

 

https://www.gov.scot/publications/building-standards-2017-domestic/3-environment/312-sanitary-facilities/ 3.12.3.

 

“a manoeuvring space that will allow a person to enter and close the door … clear of any door swing or other obstruction”

 

“an activity space for each sanitary facility, … These may overlap with each other and with the manoeuvring space noted above. A door may open over an activity space, …”

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Thanks guys.

Picture attached is the cropped area I was looking at, originally designed to England and Wales part M and a few extra mm here and there.

From top down

-300mm wide sink space,(the top side of this wall works out to be 600mm for a kitchen unit depth)

-850wide by800 deep door/accessible space -850wide by 700 toilet space.

Basicallyneed to see if can go out 250mm more or push into the kitchen more and not use the wall thickness difference between exterior and new interior. Or flip it around.

Sadly think it's all a bit too much of a pinch and compramise

 

 

20190110_193820.jpg

 

Edit: reading that a sink can infringe on a access space, can a sink (small cloakroom style) also encroch on the "activity space"? I can quite decifer.

Also what may let us down is having to include a shower space for future use, or is this not required also due to existing bathroom but on a different level?

Edited by ash_scotland88
Added questions
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