No deal Brexit impact

[ToughButterCup]

41 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

...

I'd prefer if you didn't use a derogative term for the Irish, but I suppose you will if you want.

 

I got my nose soundly broken by a a Royal Irish Regiment sergeant for calling him a Paddy. Let my own Regiment down using that epithet. 

He's a very nice man, very very nice man (still) I'm sure ?

[joe90]

Why does Parliament move between Brussels and Strasbourg?
 

monthly move of the European Parliament between Brussels and Strasbourg costs European taxpayers €200 million per year. 
 

another reason to vote leave.

Edited December 8, 2020 by joe90

[jamieled]

18 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

and they have never balanced the books for the EU  EVER --had numerous accounting firms and when they start finding problems --they get sacked 

 

EU spending has been audited and signed off every year. It doesn't take much effort to check this. Jacob Rees Mogg and the ERG tried to peddle this and were widely derided for it.

 

 

[scottishjohn]

2 hours ago, jamieled said:

 

EU spending has been audited and signed off every year. It doesn't take much effort to check this. Jacob Rees Mogg and the ERG tried to peddle this and were widely derided for it.

 

 

even the most bent businessman gets his books signed off -- we are talking forensic investigation which has happened a few times in the EU and every time it is stopped before it reports --

[Temp]

Looks like our ports are already starting to struggle. Partly due to companies trying to beat the Brexit deadline, partly due to lack of space, partly higher traffic volumes. This has been ongoing since October.

 

Honda may have to stop production.. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55230469

Quote

Honda warns of parts shortage due to UK port woes
The plant operates on a "just in time" production system, where parts arrive at the factory when they are needed.
Honda has told employees that it is currently experiencing vessel delays and congestion at UK ports.
It is looking at other arrangements, such as air freight, but disruption could begin as early as Wednesday.
Congestion at UK container ports has been building up in recent weeks, causing problems initially at Felixstowe, but recently at Southampton and London Gateway as well.
Swindon Honda closure date 'set in stone'
The backlog has built up as companies increased orders after the initial pandemic lockdown, while some have looked to stockpile goods before the end of the Brexit transition period.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54908129

Quote

Part of the problem is a shipment of 11,000 containers of PPE ordered by the government that is clogging up the port.
snip
An Evergreen spokesman said the firm had been told by Felixstowe's owner that a berthing slot - where cargo is unloaded - would not be available for up to 10 days after the ship's scheduled arrival.
snip
Hutchison Ports UK said: "The imbalance in UK trade and Brexit stockpiling exacerbate current operational challenges and we are working with our customers and stakeholders to get through the current congestion.

 

Also causing issues on the rail network..

 

https://theloadstar.com/congestion-problems-at-uk-ports-stacking-up-as-rising-imports-drive-delays/

Quote

According to customer advisory from UK freight forwarder Ligentia, issues with returning empty containers are now spreading to the country’s rail network, as carriers seek alternative exit points for restitutions.

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Temp

[Temp]

More

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54989299

.. congestion at England's ports is now so bad,

some shipping firms have limited the amount of cargo they will bring to the UK.

One of the world's biggest shipping lines, CMA CGM, told the BBC it was allocating less space on its fleet for UK imports for the time being.

 

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, joe90 said:

monthly move of the European Parliament between Brussels and Strasbourg costs European taxpayers €200 million per year. 

I think I read somewhere that it was smaller, and cheaper to run, than Birmingham council.

 

Though I do agree that moving every month is a bit bonkers, but then our politicians generally go 'back home' every week.

Say it costs £200 quid each, that is over £6m/year, and that is before moving staff/security about.

I really think that is a distraction.

[LA3222]

3 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

I was the same in that I didn't believe the promises/predictions of either side. I decided that I couldn't see any advantage in leaving the the EU, so voted remain. After the result of the referendum I would have preferred we didn't have a trade deal but had a year to sort out the Irish border issue and nothing else. What convinced you there was an advantage in leaving the EU.

Difficult to say really as there is no big 'gotcha',  it is more a collection of little things which on balance leave me thinking, regretfully that we are better off out on the whole.

 

Don't get me wrong,  I'm pro European, I just don't like what the Union has become. Free movement, the ability to go live and work in other countries are great and its a shame to lose them. I think that the EU is too different to integrate in the way they are trying and its causing a lot of issues. There is a big wealth/debt imbalance, I dont like how Governing the EU works, it seems like a cess pit of self interested motivations. The EU came up with a constitution in 2005, put it to a referendum in France and The Netherlands where it was soundly rejected. What do they do, rewrite it slightly as the Treaty of Lisburn and sign it off without so much as a 'by your leave' to their voters.

 

Such contempt is shown by those in power to the electorate its disgusting. The contempt they showed David Cameron when he went to try and 'win' concessions pre Brexit vote. They gave him nothing and he had to pretend otherwise. They were dumbfounded when the UK voted leave simply because they have no grasp whatsoever of public opinion or they choose to wilfully ignore it.

 

I cant support remain whilst the EU is governed in such fashion. It was supposed to be a trading union, God knows what it is now. The subsidy system, all of it is a cess pit of self interests. They are battling now over the Brexit relief fund in the event of no deal. Look at the cluster f**k with the EU Covid Relief Package, Poland and Hungary looking to veto it because they don't want clauses which prejudice against their access to the fund. They are slowing becoming  autocratic, suppressing their judiciary etc, what can the EU do....nothing. It is an impotent and corrupt organisation. They 'buy' Turkish agreement to stop the flow of migrants and now have to tread carefully with the Greece/Turkey oil drilling issue in case the Turks open the gates and let the migrants through. Powerless to stand up for one of their own.

 

Greece and Italy were hammered with the migrant crisis, the EU declared that all EU countries had to accept a redistribution of migrants to help Greece and Italy out...did they....no. They left Greece and Italy to it.

 

Its a Union of equals when it suits, when it doesn't it is every man for themselves.

 

A great idea, poorly led and poorly executed.

Edited December 8, 2020 by LA3222

[daiking]

4 hours ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

@storminateacup makes a good point. Major constitutional changes typically require more than a simple 50.001% win to be put into effect. Cameron made a technical blunder agreeing to a simple majority referendum, this is because he was an arrogant toff of a PM who thought he could dragoon the little people into voting for remain.

I hope that both sides will be in agreement that the blame for everything lies squarely with David Cameron. 

[ProDave]

16 minutes ago, daiking said:

I hope that both sides will be in agreement that the blame for everything lies squarely with David Cameron. 

No it was earlier than that.

 

Maastricht & Lisbon treaties that both moved the EU from a "Common Market" towards what it is now.  We were promised a referensum on at least one of those then never got it.  Perhaps, just perhaps had we had that referendum and rejected it, then it would have to have been toned down and re negotiated and the EU might not have become so  dominant and might have been acceptable to the majority in the UK?

[Ferdinand]

6 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

I think I read somewhere that it was smaller, and cheaper to run, than Birmingham council.

 

Though I do agree that moving every month is a bit bonkers, but then our politicians generally go 'back home' every week.

Say it costs £200 quid each, that is over £6m/year, and that is before moving staff/security about.

I really think that is a distraction.

 

Moving the EU Parliament around costs £100m per year.

 

https://www.euronews.com/2019/05/20/eu-parliament-s-114m-a-year-move-to-strasbourg-a-waste-of-money-but-will-it-ever-be-scrapp

 

That's several billion over the years.

 

All of it. Pissed away to no purpose.

 

[ToughButterCup]

6 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

...

All of it. Pissed away to no purpose.

 

Anyone's expenditure is another's income. Not quite purpose-free, therefore.

[joe90]

1 minute ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

Anyone's expenditure is another's income. Not quite purpose-free, therefore.

I do get that, however it’s tax payers money and it should be “value for money” ?

[Ferdinand]

4 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

Anyone's expenditure is another's income. Not quite purpose-free, therefore.

 

I don't agree there, or I suggest that benefits are de minimis.

 

It is the equivalent of counting lamp posts. The value added hardly exists.

 

If somebody will give me 100m a year for living 100 miles down the road one week a month, then I'll certainly think about it...

 

 

[Bitpipe]

6 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

 

Moving the EU Parliament around costs £100m per year.

 

https://www.euronews.com/2019/05/20/eu-parliament-s-114m-a-year-move-to-strasbourg-a-waste-of-money-but-will-it-ever-be-scrapp

 

That's several billion over the years.

 

All of it. Pissed away to no purpose.

 

 

I agree that the parliament swap is inefficient and something of a nonsense but the amount represents 0.1% of the annual EU budget or 1% of their annual admin budget. So if that's your reason to vote leave then it's a thin one.

 

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/faq/19/why-does-parliament-move-between-brussels-and-strasbourg

 

Our own govt managed to spend £10Bn more than necessary on PPE in just a few months back in March. Had they been prudent and stockpiled more than 2 months worth, as recommended by the pandemic 'war gaming' exercise they did a few years previously there would not have been the need for so much panic buying at inflated prices and gross profiteering in the supply chain.

 

Chris Grayling alone seemed to get through £2Bn with his blunders over the last two years. And never mind the billions wasted on abandoned gov IT projects over the years. 

 

But these things happen in government - it's not 100% efficient, neither is business (I once worked on a project at a well known company that wasted $2Bn on a new consumer product that was shelved a few weeks after launch).

 

This article is an interesting comparison of who paid what (both gross and relatively) in the last budget cycle ending 2020. UK were 5th on list per capita, 4th per GDP and 2nd gross amount after Germany.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48256318

 

[SteamyTea]

13 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

represents 0.1% of the annual EU budget or 1% of their annual admin budget.

Do they spend more on printer paper and ink?

[Bitpipe]

12 hours ago, ProDave said:

No it was earlier than that.

 

Maastricht & Lisbon treaties that both moved the EU from a "Common Market" towards what it is now.  We were promised a referensum on at least one of those then never got it.  Perhaps, just perhaps had we had that referendum and rejected it, then it would have to have been toned down and re negotiated and the EU might not have become so  dominant and might have been acceptable to the majority in the UK?

 

Have to agree with that, there was a definite 'kicking the can down the road' attitude to continuing consent for EU membership which just made it easier to paint EU membership as negative.

 

I would hazard a guess that this is because, due to continuing press and in particular tabloid demonisation of the EU (Boris Johnson played his part there as the Times' Brussels correspondent, freely admitting to just making up stories on bent bananas to fill his column and make mischief) no govt felt they could definitely win the factual remain vs emotional leave argument. Apart from Cameron - and even he was bounced into it by unexpectedly winning a majority.

 

The EU is quite bad at promoting its positive contribution to economic and social life, and for the UK (and many other European) governments it was a useful scapegoat on which to hang national problems.

 

Also, and this is not a criticism but an observation, the UK (or more correctly England) does not appear to like being in a club that it's not a dominant member of (Empire, Commonwealth, UK..).

 

Fact was, UK was hugely influential in the EU - the voting decisions went its way over 95% of the time - and the smaller, like minded, net-contributor, nations of Denmark, Netherlands, Ireland etc. looked to the UK to successfully counterbalance the influence of France, Germany and the southern and eastern members.

 

[ToughButterCup]

30 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

...

Also, and this is not a criticism but an observation, the UK (or more correctly England) does not appear to like being in a club that it's not a dominant member of (Empire, Commonwealth, UK..).

...

 

And that accords with a widely promulgated German view of  English attitudes. As ever, they coined a compound noun to  encapsulate the idea: Inselmentalitaet (Tr. Island Mentality). 

[Bitpipe]

21 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

And that accords with a widely promulgated German view of  English attitudes. As ever, they coined a compound noun to  encapsulate the idea: Inselmentalitaet (Tr. Island Mentality). 

 

I do love a German compound noun. Schoolboy favourite was Fernsehapparat and as an Erasamus student in Augsburg, Aufenhalterlaubnis.

 

Not quite antidisestablishmentarianism but getting close.

 

 

[Ferdinand]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

Do they spend more on printer paper and ink?

They spend more on farm crops that don't exist ?

[ToughButterCup]

Try getting ..........  Rechtsschutzversicherungsgesellschaften .......... on a sign post (Tr. Legal defence insurance companies).

Mind you Mr Trump needs one or two of them at the moment doesn't he?    Oh, just thought : Rechtsschutzversicherungsgesellschaftsfuehrer - there ya go, beat that.

Edited December 9, 2020 by ToughButterCup

[Ferdinand]

9 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

Try getting ..........  Rechtsschutzversicherungsgesellschaften .......... on a sign post (Tr. Legal defence insurance companies).

Mind you Mr Trump needs one or two of them at the moment doesn't he?    Oh, just thought : Rechtsschutzversicherungsgesellschaftsfuehrer - there ya go, beat that.

I raise you:

 

Legal Defence Insurance Companies' REGULATOR. 

[LA3222]

1 hour ago, Bitpipe said:

 (or more correctly England) does not appear to like being in a club that it's not a dominant member of (Empire, Commonwealth, UK..)

Bit of a broad sweeping assumption/slur  there about English people (all the more surprising considering you objected to derogatory terms being used in an earlier post). 

 

It appears to me that remain leaning people / organisations etc etc have to find some reason to 'justify' or 'explain' why we voted to leave. It is usually to do with racism, xenophobia, lack of education, old people stealing Young people's futures away from them, anti-immigration, far right, whatever. There always has to be an underlying reason common to all leave voting individuals.

 

I have to say, being unhappy about not being Alpha, so taking our ball home is a new one on me.

[Onoff]

42 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

 

I do love a German compound noun. Schoolboy favourite was Fernsehapparat and as an Erasamus student in Augsburg, Aufenhalterlaubnis.

 

Not quite antidisestablishmentarianism but getting close.

 

 

 

Far seeing device. Always loved that one!

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, Bitpipe said:

does not appear to like being in a club that it's not a dominant member of

 

Damn right, everyone knew their place back then...

 

?