Jeremy Harris Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 29 minutes ago, ProDave said: Most of the schemes do not seem interested in pursuing complaints against their members. Exactly my experience. The first electrician I used not only did a poor job, but didn't register the Part P chit with building control. I chased him, then chased the body he was accredited with and they pretty much point blank refused to get involved, saying it was a matter between me and their member, nothing to do with them. If it hadn't been for another chap being prepared to inspect, test and sign off on this work then I could have had a problem. I'm convinced that the accreditation scheme companies really don't give a stuff as long as they get paid by their members. No one polices them, AFAIK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 1 hour ago, ProDave said: Has he CLAIMED membership of any trade body? This comes up from time to time on the electrician forum, it is very hard to get someone prosecuted for doing non compliant work, unless someone dies or is injured. Most of the schemes do not seem interested in pursuing complaints against their members. BUT if someone is found to be using the logo but is not a member of that scheme, hat seems to end up in court very quickly. Not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 2 hours ago, pocster said: Because I can get affiliated body to check the work . Perhaps I’ll take legal action . Need to know his official status Unlikely as they aren't interested. Most of the competent persons registration schemes just report breaches to the appropriate building control departments and leave them to do the chasing. Issue is that most are understaffed so the only person who has lost out is the customer, who has to not only fix the existing issue at their cost, but also pursue the original supplier which is just not worth it usually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 Just now, PeterW said: Unlikely as they aren't interested. Most of the competent persons registration schemes just report breaches to the appropriate building control departments and leave them to do the chasing. Issue is that most are understaffed so the only person who has lost out is the customer, who has to not only fix the existing issue at their cost, but also pursue the original supplier which is just not worth it usually... Unfortunately you are almost definitely correct. But it gives me some leverage if I chase his 'boss' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 Met builder on site without cylinder installer ( probably best for his benefit) Going to run 22mm from the tundish from UVC - straight out through wall and down rear of house ; therefore no need to tee into boiler PRV ( this will be put back as was ) . Then going to commission it .... so I will get required paperwork. Therefore I am covered in the sense I believe it to be safe and it’s installed by someone who is supposedly qualified. Then it will be lodged with building control ( I presume that’s effectively self cert ) . They then check his gas , electric etc. Credentials are suitable ; so BC told me . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 3 hours ago, pocster said: Met builder on site without cylinder installer ( probably best for his benefit) Going to run 22mm from the tundish from UVC - straight out through wall and down rear of house ; therefore no need to tee into boiler PRV ( this will be put back as was ) . Then going to commission it .... so I will get required paperwork. Therefore I am covered in the sense I believe it to be safe and it’s installed by someone who is supposedly qualified. Then it will be lodged with building control ( I presume that’s effectively self cert ) . They then check his gas , electric etc. Credentials are suitable ; so BC told me . Yes, apart from you don’t need to check his gas, unless he has altered the gas supply or flue. Do you have a pic of the expansion vessel for the UVC? Should be white or silver, about the size of a football or a bit bigger. Let’s check the ? out of this eh ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Yes, apart from you don’t need to check his gas, unless he has altered the gas supply or flue. Do you have a pic of the expansion vessel for the UVC? Should be white or silver, about the size of a football or a bit bigger. Let’s check the ? out of this eh ? Not too hand . I know there is one though ? Photo to follow ; what are you looking for ? I.e what could possibly be wrong ? ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Who purchased the cylinder as that looks like a Telford ..? Should have come with all the gubbins to fit it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 11 minutes ago, PeterW said: Who purchased the cylinder as that looks like a Telford ..? Should have come with all the gubbins to fit it.... Installer I guess I just pay the builder he sorts / employs everyone else . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 32 minutes ago, PeterW said: Who purchased the cylinder as that looks like a Telford ..? Should have come with all the gubbins to fit it.... Looking at the position of the over pressure valve (not right at the top of the tank) that might be the Tornado, with the expansion vessel built into the top of the tank (so one less thing for the idiot to get wrong) @pocster how much more does the top of the tank extend beyond what is shown in the picture? But if it IS the Tornado version, is their enough room above it to access and service the expansion vessel from above? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 1 hour ago, ProDave said: Looking at the position of the over pressure valve (not right at the top of the tank) that might be the Tornado, with the expansion vessel built into the top of the tank (so one less thing for the idiot to get wrong) @pocster how much more does the top of the tank extend beyond what is shown in the picture? But if it IS the Tornado version, is their enough room above it to access and service the expansion vessel from above? That’s about the top of the tank . The top of the cupboard had the base ripped out just so the expansion tank would fit - photos to follow ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 1 minute ago, pocster said: photos to follow ! Chop chop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Chop chop. I know I know ! Christ - got a bodged uvc , entire house to sort , liquid roof to sort , oh yeah build a house and tons of other life stuff . And all you f’ers want is a photo of a metal ball to pick apart ! ? Edited November 15, 2018 by pocster Brexit shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Less yapping, more snapping ?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 8 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Less yapping, more snapping ?? What happened to @Onoff helical hydraulic sex toy shower head ? . Can’t we have photos of that ??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 37 minutes ago, pocster said: That’s about the top of the tank . The top of the cupboard had the base ripped out just so the expansion tank would fit - photos to follow ! I'll get the popcorn while I wait, this could be fun, 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 24 minutes ago, pocster said: What happened to @Onoff helical hydraulic sex toy shower head ? . Can’t we have photos of that ??? Like I said, as soon as it's finished I'll give you a shout and you can come and practice your handstands! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Errr... @pocster... is the controller circled the old controller and does it go to the bottom immersion on the tank..?? Follow the wire with the red arrow on it.. If so, I think that’s a standard Drayton central heating controller isn’t it, doesn’t look like a 16A controller so if you turn that on it will probably melt the contacts ... Should be a model number under the LCD screen ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Davies Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Under what circumstances do cables like those have to be trunked? I was under the impression that all cables except within specific wiring cupboards, etc, needed to be. Had the oil boiler here replaced a few months ago and the electrician used trunking in the kitchen boiler and the bedroom hot water tank cupboards (new thermostat on the HW tank as it was going from gravity fed to pumped) for all the wiring except the short flexes to the boiler and the pump and an earth wire which runs off somewhere which I think is exempt anyway. Doubt he'd have bothered if he didn't need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 7 hours ago, Ed Davies said: Under what circumstances do cables like those have to be trunked? I was under the impression that all cables except within specific wiring cupboards, etc, needed to be. Had the oil boiler here replaced a few months ago and the electrician used trunking in the kitchen boiler and the bedroom hot water tank cupboards (new thermostat on the HW tank as it was going from gravity fed to pumped) for all the wiring except the short flexes to the boiler and the pump and an earth wire which runs off somewhere which I think is exempt anyway. Doubt he'd have bothered if he didn't need to. Clipped direct is OK in a location that's protected, like that cupboard. Plastic cable clips are now out, though, and it will be mandatory to only use metal cable clips from next year, whatever the location (currently metal cable clips or non-flammable support is only required in areas where cables may fall down in the event of fire). Plastic trunking or conduit is possibly going to be impacted by the new regs in the 18th Ed I think, although I don't have a copy yet to check the exact wording with regard to cable support. As it calls for the use of metal cable clips everywhere, it seems probable that plastic trunking used as cable support may well be outlawed, too, but right now I'm not sure (anyone got a copy of the 18th who can shed some light on the exact wording, please?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, JSHarris said: Clipped direct is OK in a location that's protected, like that cupboard. Plastic cable clips are now out, though, and it will be mandatory to only use metal cable clips from next year, whatever the location (currently metal cable clips or non-flammable support is only required in areas where cables may fall down in the event of fire). Plastic trunking or conduit is possibly going to be impacted by the new regs in the 18th Ed I think, although I don't have a copy yet to check the exact wording with regard to cable support. As it calls for the use of metal cable clips everywhere, it seems probable that plastic trunking used as cable support may well be outlawed, too, but right now I'm not sure (anyone got a copy of the 18th who can shed some light on the exact wording, please?) From a quick look in the BBB: Though it might be protected by virtue of being in the cupboard, behind a door, the reasoning for the cabling in trunking is down to "external influences" in this case an external heat source - i.e. the pipes. You've likely got 70degC pvc T&E near pipes hotter than that. The trunking provides protection against those expected external influences. By shielding the cable with the trunking you avoid the effects and tick the box. (See Section 522) Yep, 521.10.202 basically says you must support the cabling so as the support system doesn't collapse in the event of a fire. Stems from the LFB and other services entering buildings where there are still live cables hanging down as well as the danger to those evacuating the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Fire- resistant support for some cables that can fall down has been in since the 17th 3rd Amnd, though, so nothing's changed there. The bit on a preview of the 18th I saw said this had now been extended to all locations, so all cable securing systems have to be fire resistant, so no more plastic cable clips, we go back to the thin metal strip clips we always used to use for cables clipped direct. I wonder if all plastic trunking and conduit is impacted by this? Seems probable to me, as I can't see the logic of banning all plastic cable clips but still allowing plastic trunking or conduit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) 52 minutes ago, JSHarris said: Fire- resistant support for some cables that can fall down has been in since the 17th 3rd Amnd, though, so nothing's changed there. The bit on a preview of the 18th I saw said this had now been extended to all locations, so all cable securing systems have to be fire resistant, so no more plastic cable clips, we go back to the thin metal strip clips we always used to use for cables clipped direct. I wonder if all plastic trunking and conduit is impacted by this? Seems probable to me, as I can't see the logic of banning all plastic cable clips but still allowing plastic trunking or conduit. 521.10.202 I referred to above; Note 3 "precludes" (the word used) the use of non metallic cable clips as the sole means of support where cables are clipped direct. The inference is that it applies to the whole installation. WTF they don't say that in plain English is beyond me. There is an IET circular somewhere I have that says "whole installation". If I can find I'll scan and post it. EDIT: Sorry, yes, "non metallic" i.e. plastic trunking as the sole means of support is a no no now. EDIT: Saves me finding/scanning the paper copy: https://electrical.theiet.org/bs-7671/18th-edition-changes/ Edited November 16, 2018 by Onoff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Bit of a bugger as I've recently wired the whole of my workshop with plastic conduit. It's legal as it's only along the walls and was done under the 17th, but would need to be in metal from next year on, it seems. Can't say that I have a problem with that; I'd have used metal if I still had conduit die and bending sets to thread the ends and bend conduit (lent them to someone who never gave it back, years ago).. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexphd1 Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 My job this weekend was to order some plastic trunking........ good timing Mr Harris ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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