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*rant* pre-application timescales *rant*


Moonshine

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Just need to vent, appologies.

 

I was advised by the council that i could submit a pre-app for comment, but was warned there was a backlog and i was looking at 12 weeks waiting time.

 

O.k that's annoying, but i figured i could wait that time (its a free service), and bit the bullet and submitted, 11 weeks ago......

 

Yesterday i phoned the planning dept as i wanted to submit some further information, and was told on the phone that there was case officer for it and to email it directly them, excellent i thought things are moving, and submitted yesterday.

 

This mornings reply from the named 'case officer' is that actually there is no case officer assigned at all, and full applications take priority, and they cannot state when they will be able to respond to my pre-app.

 

Further they then indicate that i need to submit a full application in order to discuss any issues or concerns with my proposal (which they would do promptly).

 

Basically i feel that i have wasted 11 weeks in the planning system, just to be told that i should have just submitted a full application, and more importantly not have had any chance to discuss my proposals with the council and be collaborative with them about it, and get their comments early doors rather than just submitting a full developed scheme, that they haven't has some input into!

 

yes, I could submit outline planning, but the cost is pretty much the same than a full application and i don't think it would really help matters.

 

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Most planning depts are understaffed and underfunded.  Round here they charge for pre app opinions.  I can really understand your frustration.

 

An outline application will probably take the same time to determine as full.  Also, in some instances, they will only entertain a full application.

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49 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Have they charged for pre-app ..??

 

if so, given you have it in writing, I would suggest you ask for a refund as they have not delivered a service and failed to deliver to any sort of timescales. 

 

No its free, and that is partially why i could stomach the wait time, with a bit of being at the bottom of the pile etc, however i can't work with an open ended response time.

 

43 minutes ago, the_r_sole said:

Mike, are you using an architect or are you freestyling this?

Pre-applications are pretty much worthless, it's really an appalling situation and it's widespread, even when you are paying for it!

The advice you recieve also has the caveat that it's just the opinion of the one officer etc so you can still end up with a planning decision which is completely contrary to the pre-app advice (this does happens and it boils my p*ss)

It is also much, much easier for a planning officer to be negative on pre-applicaiton advice because they don't have any scrutiny on their opinion - recently had a very negative preapp and discovered it's because the neighbour is a known troublemaker with planning application so we reckon the officer just wanted to dissuade us from submitting an application.

 

They say they want you to discuss things and it's better for you etc, but in reality the system is so poorly implemented and controlled it's pointless

 

 

At this stage i am free-styling, with the hope to be able to have open conversation with the council on what they would and wouldn't like to see, and using this information get an architect on board with a more defined scope. In fact i have actually done a fair bit of drawing in the 11 weeks and have a fairly developed scheme that i figured would be good as an indicative scheme rather than rough areas 2D on a site plan. I suppose i could put this in for a full application, however I probably need an architect to go over it to make sure i haven't made a big cock up, and put in something that isn't going to work, or could be done better.

 

I was half expecting the pre-app to not come back smelling of roses, but at least it would be something to work with!

Edited by mike m
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We went for pre-app advice, which was free many years ago in our area, and it was a complete waste of time. As has been said on here, and what we were later told by the Planning Dept., is that Planning Officers have different views on applications and therefore there will be different outcomes.

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22 minutes ago, the_r_sole said:

The only time on individual houses that we go for pre-app advice is when it's something we know will be controversial and then you just want to get a handle on how resistant they are going to be so you can frame the planning application to be difficult for them to refuse!

 

My site has got a history, and there has been 3 applications in for an additional dwelling on the site in the last 25 years, one was granted (the earliest one) and two subsequent ones refused (one went to the inspectorate and refusal was upheld). I believe what i am now proposing is significantly different than those and a better fit to the area, and I wanted to get a steer from the council of my scheme about some key issues before progressing.

 

I guess the only way to really test it is to do the full application!

Edited by mike m
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I'm also of the view that pre-app advice is a complete waste of time.  I opted to put in a full application, as by my way of thinking I would get the same feedback from doing this as from going for paid-for pre-app advice, and if it looked iffy I could always withdraw the application before a decision had been made, change things and then re-submit for free, using the "free go".  It made no sense to me to get non-binding pre-app advice from a single officer, who may well not have been the case officer for the full application anyway.

 

Much of the useful feedback didn't come from the planning officer anyway, it came from consultees, in our case the AONB committee, the highways chap, the Conservation Officer and the Environment Agency.  We needed to make some minor amendments to keep these people happy, and we wouldn't have had that feedback from pre-app advice.

 

There were five previous planning applications for our site, too, and it was definitely controversial, with a lot of local objection to the application before ours, including 14 separate points of objection just from the Parish Council.

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I should add that, i spoke to a couple of architects and planners about the site and the possibilities of development and they all indicted that pre-app was the way to go, a couple said that based on the drawing i had put together already at the time as they would be enough to pre-app, and they could contribute and build on the pre-app response.

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I didn't have much time pressure because my plot purchase was hung up on a croft-law cock up anyway. I wanted to do something a bit odd which I thought the planners would either love or hate so it was worth getting some guidance before going to the expense of getting proper drawings and an application done professionally. As it was they were very supportive. The feedback from the pre-app did save a bit of time on the full application (route of the entrance track) which went through very smoothly as a result. So for me the pre-app made a lot of sense. It was free and done a week quicker than their target of 8 weeks.

Edited by Ed Davies
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22 minutes ago, Ed Davies said:

As it was they were very supportive. The feedback from the pre-app did save a bit of time on the full application (route of the entrance track) which went through very smoothly as a result. So for me the pre-app made a lot of sense. It was free and done a week quicker than their target of 8 weeks.

 

livin' the dream! :)

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Just now, recoveringacademic said:

I have come to see enforced waiting time as valuable planning time.

 

True, though i haven't wasted the time, i ended up learning sketchup and making a 3D model of the whole site and surrounding area and houses, which mean i have some really good cross sections and street scene images that give context to the site and the proposals.

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5 hours ago, mike m said:

however I probably need an architect to go over it to make sure i haven't made a big cock up, and put in something that isn't going to work,

 

My architect (who turned out to be an architectural technician) designed things that wouldn't work and, although she knew my budget, didn't offer any advice as to the least expensive way forward or that alterations she suggested would make the build much more expensive.  She also didn't advise that hard landscaping needed to be on the plans in order to be able to reclaim that VAT.  

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11 weeks! I thought my pre-app was taking forever, mine has been in for four weeks, I called up last week and was told that the planning officer has completed her report but is waiting to be signed off by her manager which should be done in 2-3 weeks... she wouldn't say what her report contains until it's been reviewed. There must be a big backlog if it takes 3 weeks to read a report. 

 

Also, I'm most disappointed that they won't actually talk to you face to face about your proposals in my borough, they hide behind reports so it's almost impossible to debate anything until it's too late. 

 

I am also in the position where I am starting to wonder if it would be best to just submit an application, although as the site is a bit touch and go on policy, I don't want to waste significant sums of money for detailed plans as I don't have money to waste. Therefore I am considering an outline application. 

 

Best of luck. 

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Our experience of pre-ap advice has been fantastic. Our chosen site is outside the village boundary and in an AONB. We first applied about 30 years ago, together with more recent attempts to get planning, but thought we’d try just one more time.

 

The pre-ap was not free. We had two meetings costing about £300.  At the first meeting the planner walked around the site and said that although we are outside, we are in fact ‘adjacent to’  the village boundary. This made the difference. The idea is that we would trade the erection of one house against the boundary in exchange for replacing old pigsties with a copse.  We drew up a proposal and at the second meeting there were further constructive suggestions. A couple of weeks ago we got permission. This would not have happened without excellent pre-ap advice. 

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16 hours ago, cherryfountain said:

Our experience of pre-ap advice has been fantastic. Our chosen site is outside the village boundary and in an AONB. We first applied about 30 years ago, together with more recent attempts to get planning, but thought we’d try just one more time.

 

The pre-ap was not free. We had two meetings costing about £300.  At the first meeting the planner walked around the site and said that although we are outside, we are in fact ‘adjacent to’  the village boundary. This made the difference. The idea is that we would trade the erection of one house against the boundary in exchange for replacing old pigsties with a copse.  We drew up a proposal and at the second meeting there were further constructive suggestions. A couple of weeks ago we got permission. This would not have happened without excellent pre-ap advice. 

Interesting, our site is similar in terms of being directly adjacent the settlement boundary. Although I get the impression my advice, if it ever turns up, will be somewhat more negative! 

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  • 3 weeks later...

O.k, so there is some movement! 

 

My pre-app has a officer, and i've had a decent conversation with them on the phone. They have agreed to a site visit and coming back to me with a date (hopefully soonish).

 

I have met with a couple of architects and plan to have appointed one at the time of the meeting, and have them there.

 

Slowly, slowly.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

I was in pre-spp for over a year. At one point we struggled to get anything from them for weeks. Eventually found out the conservation officer had quit and we had to wait for them to recruit another one. That took another month and she was immediately overloaded with work.

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