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Pre-App Site Meeting


PolicySucks

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Hi All, 

 

We have the planning officer from the local planning authority coming to meet us at our site tomorrow, any tips or things to avoid saying etc would be useful. 

 

Hoping none of the grumpy neighbouring property owners spot us and come out all guns blazing !

 

Kind Regards

 

Ollie

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I was very open about our intentions for our plot when I met the planning officer.  I was anticipating some difficulty as we knew that we wanted a very contemporary house when there is nothing comparable in the area and he deals with many of the conservation type projects.  It turned out that he had no problem with modern buildings and preferred them to stylized pastiche designs and we had zero objections or alterations to our submitted plans.  We even put a pond into the PP request due to its size, as well as greenhouses on the agricultural part of the land.  No problem with any of it.

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Do you know the name of the official coming to meet you?

 

I  ask because if you do, and you can read some of his or her decisions online before tomorrow, it means you have time to get a feel for all sorts of things in advance of the meeting. And if you can mention (provided it's relevant) one or more of the decisions he or she has made, then that will, at the very least, cause an inner smile. And so oil the wheel a bit.

 

The micropolitics of the meeting are critical. Professional, polite, attentive, listening. Find out as much as you can about the planner before tomorrow. Do not be afraid of silence.

 

Every Planner is used to  Mr and Mrs Grumpy. Its normal. 

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The 80-20 listen / speak rule is key. When we had ours the architect told me to keep quiet and let him do the talking which was sensible as we were paying him after all. In the end I only spoke about things that where beyond the architects scope or where he didn't have the answer. IE were we intending to live there (yes), what were are our plans for the footpath (offered to clear and resurface), would we be happy to have obscured glass in any East facing glazing (along the footpath so no problem). 

Edited by MikeSharp01
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So we had the Planning officer out last Friday for a site meeting. She was possibly the hardest person ever to talk to, she wasn't interested in chit chat, didn't ask me any questions really, forgot to bring any of the paperwork with her. She did mention she was off on holiday that afternoon and you could tell, she was looking at her watch every 30 seconds. 

 

I tried my best but don't think she was at all interested in our site, she made a handful of notes that she kept very close to her chest. I asked her if she thought there would be any major issues, to which she simply replied "Settlement Boundary". I mentioned the Braintree DC case which she seemed to have never heard of until I explained it and then she knew all about it (I suspect she didn't know of it as she wrote it down) she went on to say she doesn't think it would apply here bla bla. I then showed her a handful of other cases in similar locations in the same borough where it had applied - she said she would look at them. 

 

It's really made me lose enthusiasm for the whole project to be honest :( 

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Don’t give up! She went away knowing that you had done some research and wasn’t going to be put off by her pessimistic view. You really have to be resilient as there will be several knock backs and disappointments I’m sure. Keep your eye on the end goal and work towards it. 

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2 hours ago, PolicySucks said:

Still not heard back from the planning officer, I had assumed she would have wanted to write her 'written advice' whilst the site visit was still fresh in her mind.  How long do these things normally take? 

 

Probably still on holiday ... chase it mid November and you’ll have it before Christmas ... 

 

This stuff has no government service level so they can in reality take as long as they want ... probably not what you want to hear !!

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26 minutes ago, PeterW said:

This stuff has no government service level so they can in reality take as long as they want ... probably not what you want to hear !!

 

Tell me about it, I submitted my pre app 10 weeks ago, and so far not heard anything other than me chasing and my app hasn't been assigned an officer yet

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On 16/10/2018 at 15:20, PolicySucks said:

[...]

I then showed her a handful of other cases in similar locations in the same borough where it had applied - she said she would look at them. 

[...]

 

Resilience.  Read this set of posts for a bit of inspiration. 

 

OK, the optics weren't good. Neither were the vibes. But that's all they were, optics and vibes. Her head was elsewhere. She knew how to play the game.  BUT....

 

Her decision has to be evidence-based - to an extent. Thats the thing - extent.

 

Her mantra - Settlement Boundary is interesting. Martin Goodhalls Planning Law Blog covers an Appeal Court Decision about this very issue. I think I summarise accurately: Settlement Boundary is not a concept that should be slavishly applied 

https://planninglawblog.blogspot.com/search?q="settlement+boundary"

 

In essence the last paragraph (quote directly below)  says it all, but the whole thing is worth a close read

 

'... It is clear from this judgment that the prescriptive and restrictive interpretation that some LPAs have sought to put on paragraph 55 of the NPPF is inappropriate, and that a more ‘broad brush’ approach is required when considering the application of this policy. Lindblom LJ’s observations on the boundaries of a settlement are particularly interesting, and clearly envisage a more flexible approach in this regard than the rigid adherence to designated settlement boundaries that LPAs commonly seem to adopt. This guidance from the Court of Appeal on the approach to be taken to the interpretation of paragraph 55 is extremely helpful, and it is to be hoped that it will put an end to sterile disputes about the acceptability of developments that are outside a designated development boundary.  ... '  (Goodhall, M, April 2018, accessed October 2108)

 

She has been pointed to a body of evidence to which she must now refer. If she doesn't, and you apply for permission, then she risks an Appeal which will take account of those earlier decisions - because they will form the core of your  grounds for appeal.

 

I would guess that about half of us here have had really depressing but high-stakes conversations with key people in the Planning Food Chain. You feel sick and despondent for a bit because you lack control.  But you can do stuff to keep your pecker up....

  • Keep abreast of the local decisions.
  • Read every single Appeal judgement in you LPA : those will be especially closely followed
  • Read her decisions - get used to her style
  • Ask around about her - quietly diplomatically
  • Talk to estate agents
  • Go and visit the sites about which she has written : look for similarities and differences with your case
  • Keep a really close eye on Martin Goodhall's blog. His written style is dense but beautifully crafted.

  • Keep talking to us

Don't let the bastards get you down. 

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