joe90

Help required wiring my ASHP/UFH

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Port A, hot water is closed on my danfoss unit whilst not being powered.. which is what @joe90 was expecting I think. 

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Right guys, in particular order

 

its a Honeywell three three way valve ://heatingcontrols.honeywellhome.com/documents/Installation-Guide/pdf/1083.pdf

 

 I have forced it into DHW mode to test and forced it into heating mode to test, this was confirmed by the command unit.

 

when in DHW mode the three way valve is energised but hot water goes to A (heating), when in heating mode the three way valve returns and the hot water goes to B (DHW). I can reverse the three way valve but this is not what I should have to do!!!!

Edited by joe90

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Ok, so it’s resting position is port B (hot water in installation guide) add power and it switches to port A (heating) in 18 seconds. Returns to port B under spring in 8 seconds. 

 

Is yours plumbed to water on B and heating on A?

 

... and is it powered from the ASHP (terminals 10 & N)?

Edited by Gav_P

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This is the one I have:

 

20181108_195840.thumb.jpg.92cf8e4c490e5b6f2901860d765be782.jpg

 

20181108_195852.thumb.jpg.97acbb7d0b6ac4c9c380eb391dc9c636.jpg

 

20181108_195941.thumb.jpg.d4057447214c9184b1c7788878f6a32a.jpg

 

Straight out of the box, not wired up and set to Auto it ports to B. Set to Man and it ports to A & B.

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48 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Right guys, in particular order

 

its a Honeywell three three way valve ://heatingcontrols.honeywellhome.com/documents/Installation-Guide/pdf/1083.pdf

 

 I have forced it into DHW mode to test and forced it into heating mode to test, this was confirmed by the command unit.

 

when in DHW mode the three way valve is energised but hot water goes to A (heating), when in heating mode the three way valve returns and the hot water goes to B (DHW). I can reverse the three way valve but this is not what I should have to do!!!!

Ah... when you are in DHW you must be creating a live feed to the valve... so the valve is thinking “oh, here comes the electricity I better switch over to heating, port A”

 

i think you are just giving it a live feed at the wrong time... for DHW, when it should be for heating.

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12 minutes ago, Onoff said:

This is the one I have:

 

20181108_195840.thumb.jpg.92cf8e4c490e5b6f2901860d765be782.jpg

 

20181108_195852.thumb.jpg.97acbb7d0b6ac4c9c380eb391dc9c636.jpg

 

20181108_195941.thumb.jpg.d4057447214c9184b1c7788878f6a32a.jpg

 

Straight out of the box, not wired up and set to Auto it ports to B. Set to Man and it ports to A & B.

Makes sense. Now power = defaulting to DHW (port B). Or override it in manual mode which opens all the doors for free flow everywhere. 

 

When you wire it up it will have 3 options.

1) no power = DHW (port B)

2) 1 signal asking for Heating = (port A)

3) 2 signals asking for DHW & heating = mid position (both ports)

 

i guess! 

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We probably need someone like @Nickfromwales to dumb it down for us. .. I’m sure it shouldn’t be this difficult! 

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9 minutes ago, Gav_P said:

Makes sense. Now power = defaulting to DHW (port B). Or override it in manual mode which opens all the doors for free flow everywhere. 

 

When you wire it up it will have 3 options.

1) no power = DHW (port B)

2) 1 signal asking for Heating = (port A)

3) 2 signals asking for DHW & heating = mid position (both ports)

 

i guess! 

 

I've no probs wiring it up just this thread made me question whether Honeywell is wired/ported different to the Tower one in at the mo. I tell you what you can tell the quality of Honeywell compared to Tower. Streets ahead right down to the tinning on the wires and documentation. I'm a convert!

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1 hour ago, Gav_P said:

We probably need someone like @Nickfromwales to dumb it down for us. .. I’m sure it shouldn’t be this difficult! 

Someone say dumb? 

👌

  • Haha 1

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Lets be clear here.

 

@Onoff has a MID position valve which is normal for a boiler central heating system. It can feed water to either port or BOTH at the same time (there is a clue in the name)

 

What @joe90 needs is a 3 port 2 way valve. It feeds water to A or B but never both at the same time.

 

They are VERY different animals.

 

The 2 way valve is simple, by default it feeds one way, energise it and it feeds the other way.

 

The mid position valve imho is the work of the devil. It is both very clever and very complicated (and somewhat of a fudge) in how it works and it's wiring is very different and more complicated.  A mid position valve will NOT work in this application.

 

If yopu want to understand how the mid position valve works, take a read here http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/plumbing/controls/midpositionvalve.htm

 

So for @joe90 lets not complicate the discussion by talking about mid position valves.

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41 minutes ago, ProDave said:

What @joe90 needs is a 3 position 2 way valve

3 port, 2 way? AIUI, it only has two positions (AB→A and AB→B).

 

I suppose a mid-position valve could be described as 3 position.

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The other ( 2 way ) valve is called a diverter valve, as it diverts flow to either port. 👍😎

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Ok... so after this minor deviation... anyone else got any ideas why joe90s heating is all assaboutface?

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In a nutshell it’s this, my ASHP delivers power to the three way valve when it goes into DHW mode and no power when in heating mode. The three way valve i have works the other way round . I can get over this by reversing the three way valve but can’t believe I am the only one to have noticed this!!!. 

 

My command unit cant use the inbuilt room stat if you set the heating water temperature (not use the inbuilt temp which might lead to defrosting), I can get round this by using a separate room stat (with dry contacts!!!). Very annoying.🤬

Edited by joe90

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9 hours ago, Gav_P said:

Ok... so after this minor deviation... anyone else got any ideas why joe90s heating is all assaboutface?

 

Can only be because the valve is operating the wrong way. The ASHP energises the valve in the DHW state, and de-energises it in the heating state.  This is the normal way diverter valves work, as most of the time they will be de-energised and running the heating.

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2 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

Can only be because the valve is operating the wrong way. The ASHP energises the valve in the DHW state, and de-energises it in the heating state.  This is the normal way diverter valves work, as most of the time they will be de-energised and running the heating.

 

Yes mate, cross posted with you. Like you I would assume energised for DHW .

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It may be worth whipping the head off and seeing if the spindle rotates 360 degrees. 

 

If it does, you can turn the head and the spindle 180 degrees and then it will operate correctly. I’ve had this before as I bought a Danfoss mid position that did what you say and it was only when I checked the ports and the head I found it was back to front. The head wasn’t fitted and it looks like someone had reversed the spindle and put it back in the box .... as a matter of course I now blow through them to check ..!!!!

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25 minutes ago, PeterW said:

It may be worth whipping the head off and seeing if the spindle rotates 360 degrees. 

 

If it does, you can turn the head and the spindle 180 degrees and then it will operate correctly. I’ve had this before as I bought a Danfoss mid position that did what you say and it was only when I checked the ports and the head I found it was back to front. The head wasn’t fitted and it looks like someone had reversed the spindle and put it back in the box .... as a matter of course I now blow through them to check ..!!!!

 

Ah ha, I was told you can’t reverse them!!!, will check it out, thanks buddy.

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AAAAHHHHHGGGGGRRRR, can’t get the head off, it’s in an awkward position and the back screw didn’t release th e head, having a coffee and calming down.

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5 minutes ago, joe90 said:

 

Ah ha, I was told you can’t reverse them!!!, will check it out, thanks buddy.

 

Two screws and the head comes off. Set the ASHP to come on and rotate the spindle to check you get warm water both sides..... then realign the spindle the way you want and put the head back on !

 

on your other point about temperature, ASHPs work by incremental heat rise so they will basically take the water temp up by 3-5 degrees per cycle. 

  • Thanks 1

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I have to go away for 48hrs again so will try this when I return. Thanks chaps.

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1 hour ago, PeterW said:

Two screws and the head comes off. Set the ASHP to come on and rotate the spindle to check you get warm water both sides..... then realign the spindle the way you want and put the head back on !

 

Just tried this before I leave and I have got it off, the spindle only moves about 30’, yes I can get warm weather both sides, it won’t go on the other way round!. I will have to drain and swop it around.

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