Total energy consumption per m2 per annum

[Onoff]

Nom:

 

Oil 2K

Leccy 1K

Poll Tax 2.5K

 

So about £5.5K + mortage +water+.....

 

:)

 

 

[newhome]

Leccy 1200

Council tax with discount 1860

 

So 3060 plus phone, broadband and handbags ? ?

 

 

[pdf27]

Electricity & Gas ~£1800

Water £180

Council Tax £1800

 

Childcare ~£18,000 ?

[NSS]

Okay, so Jeremy's suggestion of highlighting the last two year's worth of utility bills would perhaps be worthwhile for existing houses, but we all seem to agree that the problem is with new builds from the major house builders. There has to be a way of using estimated energy costs to encourage better standards, and that has to be driven by buyers being better informed about those costs and choosing accordingly. I accept that not everyone will be persuaded, but you have to start somewhere.

[gravelld]

You start by making energy reflect its true costs. It doesn't. A carbon tax is the way of achieving this, and pretty much all economists agree it's the right thing to do.

[Declan52]

26 minutes ago, pdf27 said:

Electricity & Gas ~£1800

Water £180

Council Tax £1800

 

Childcare ~£18,000 ?

£18,000 for childcare is unreal!! For that they would need to be getting Heston Blumenthal in for lunches.

[NSS]

26 minutes ago, gravelld said:

You start by making energy reflect its true costs. It doesn't. A carbon tax is the way of achieving this, and pretty much all economists agree it's the right thing to do.

But that requires the political will, and politicians know that anything that raises costs significantly will lose them votes, so it ain't going to happen. It has to be driven by the market (as in the consumer) demanding more energy efficient homes.

Edited August 24, 2018 by NSS

[pdf27]

1 minute ago, Declan52 said:

£18,000 for childcare is unreal!! For that they would need to be getting Heston Blumenthal in for lunches.

Works out at about £5/hour for the time we pay for - 2 kids, one of whom has been getting the 30 hours a week free. There are really strict limits on staff/child ratios for younger children, and once you add in everything else it's actually pretty reasonable for the south-east of England.

Should come down a lot in a couple of years when the youngest starts school - until then we're struggling a bit financially. We want to rebuild the current house, but right now the finances are a trifle stretched...

[Jeremy Harris]

6 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

£18,000 for childcare is unreal!! For that they would need to be getting Heston Blumenthal in for lunches.

 

That's not unusual around here.  I worked with people that paid that much or more.  It seems mad, but it's a symptom of the vicious cycle of high property cost and the need for high family earnings to support it.

[Declan52]

All I can say is thank God I don't live in the south of England . 

[Onoff]

9 minutes ago, pdf27 said:

Works out at about £5/hour for the time we pay for - 2 kids, one of whom has been getting the 30 hours a week free. There are really strict limits on staff/child ratios for younger children, and once you add in everything else it's actually pretty reasonable for the south-east of England.

Should come down a lot in a couple of years when the youngest starts school - until then we're struggling a bit financially. We want to rebuild the current house, but right now the finances are a trifle stretched...

 

SE England? SWMBO's said she'll look after it for £18K!

[pdf27]

1 minute ago, Onoff said:

SE England? SWMBO's said she'll look after it for £18K!

Wrong side of London for you. Plus there are two of them, and I want a big discount when one starts school the week after next!

[NSS]

And there goes another thread on a completely unrelated tack.

[Guest Alphonsox]

1 minute ago, NSS said:

And there goes another thread on a completely unrelated tack.

 

You're assuming the energy consumption per m² doesn't include a child care factor. The joy of a lightly moderated forum ?

[NSS]

I just hope it's LED lightly ?

[dpmiller]

children produce a lot of hot air.

[Declan52]

So realistically what are the main bits I would need to include to get a better figure for the per m2 cost.

Fuel for my pellet stove

My rates( council tax equivalent )

Electric bills

No water charge ( it's in our rates )

Anything else

You can't include phone and broadband as they are optional costs. 

[NSS]

1 minute ago, Declan52 said:

So realistically what are the main bits I would need to include to get a better figure for the per m2 cost.

Fuel for my pellet stove

My rates( council tax equivalent )

Electric bills

No water charge ( it's in our rates )

Anything else

You can't include phone and broadband as they are optional costs. 

Council Tax and water have no relevance to the energy consumption. Including them (and childcare) would only dilute the impact of the figure.

[Jeremy Harris]

4 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

So realistically what are the main bits I would need to include to get a better figure for the per m2 cost.

Fuel for my pellet stove

My rates( council tax equivalent )

Electric bills

No water charge ( it's in our rates )

Anything else

You can't include phone and broadband as they are optional costs. 

 

It's primarily about reducing energy use, which largely hinges on reducing energy loss, which in turn hinges on reducing space heating loss and, perhaps more importantly, reducing DHW energy use.  In retrofit terms, heat recovery systems for hot water are worth looking at, especially for households with families that use a lot of hot water.  You can get heat recovery units that fit in the drain pipes from showers and baths and recover around 70% of the energy used to heat the water initially, which can make  substantial saving.  @jack has one, I believe, and may be better able to give a view as to how well they work.

[Declan52]

My house takes about 1.5t of pellets per year. What I pay in electric and I get back from my fit payments are near enough the same. This year I was in profit by a few quid and last year I was down. With the hot spell last month I will probably be up again next year but it's only ever around £30-£50 either way.

Pellets are £425 this year. 

Electric zero

House is 220 sqm

Cost £1.93 per sqm.

[newhome]

If we're doing the per sqm thing then I guess mine is just the £1200 PA leccy bill for a 350 m2 house so £3.42 per sqm. That's with no renewables as the ST doesn't work  and it would have been good this summer. The figures are slightly skewed though as there is only me here and I don't heat all of the rooms unless there are other people visiting, but it is what it is. More occupants = more expensive per sqm but not on a per head basis. 

 

 

[Guest Alphonsox]

18 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

It's primarily about reducing energy use, which largely hinges on reducing energy loss, which in turn hinges on reducing space heating loss and, perhaps more importantly, reducing DHW energy use.  In retrofit terms, heat recovery systems for hot water are worth looking at, especially for households with families that use a lot of hot water.  You can get heat recovery units that fit in the drain pipes from showers and baths and recover around 70% of the energy used to heat the water initially, which can make  substantial saving.  @jack has one, I believe, and may be better able to give a view as to how well they work.

 

It's primarily about reducing total CO2 per lifestyle  - I've built a near passive house but due to lack of decent broadband (not an optional cost for my line of work @Declan52 ) I end up commuting more than I would like. This involves cars and aeroplanes to get to/from Bristol from Northern Ireland. The supply of a decent broadband connection would significantly lower my CO2 signature, probably far more than any improvement to the house fabric would achieve.

[newhome]

Broadband isn't optional here either as I work from home 2 - 3 days a week and have to have it for the VPN connection. Broadband (whilst pretty slow) lowers my carbon footprint simply because I'm not travelling to the office every day using cars / trains. 

 

 

[NSS]

Projected total imported electricity cost for first 12 months (we have no gas) - £790

 

Projected FiT payments - £280

RHI payments - £444

 

Net energy cost - £66

 

165m2 = 40p/m2a

 

Exclude the RHI and that rises to £3.09/m2a

 

It's a rather different calculation from that I originally proposed, but provides a very stark comparison to our previous home where the same calculation would have given a figure of £9.79/m2a 

[Triassic]

8 hours ago, Alphonsox said:

The supply of a decent broadband connection would significantly lower my CO2 signature, probably far more than any improvement to the house fabric would achieve.

Out of interest, could you define “decent broadband”? So I have something to benchmark against.