PeterW Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Ed_MK said: that is EXACTLY the one the wife wants Peter although we are swaying between the 30 and 40 and still trying to get our head around the CF versus BF bit but i hear your post above ....either way we are into a liner ...looks like back to Dunbrik config page again Conventional Flue is mad ..! It’s 12% less efficient and £1000 more expensive ..! Balanced flue out the back as what nick said and then insulate the box. You don’t need a liner for the BF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_MK Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 1 hour ago, PeterW said: Conventional Flue is mad ..! It’s 12% less efficient and £1000 more expensive ..! Balanced flue out the back as what nick said and then insulate the box. You don’t need a liner for the BF really !! in cost of boiler or cost of chimney/flue ? So if i did that ...what would become of my bloody chimney lads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Cost of flue liners, adhesive and vermiculite fill would be £1000 or so plus labour to install. Chimney can be built as a fake chimney with the pot(s) on top and sealed off so they are decorative. Quick and easy, just needs a cavity tray near the bottom with a couple of weeps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_MK Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, PeterW said: Cost of flue liners, adhesive and vermiculite fill would be £1000 or so plus labour to install. Chimney can be built as a fake chimney with the pot(s) on top and sealed off so they are decorative. Quick and easy, just needs a cavity tray near the bottom with a couple of weeps. ] thats awesome Peter. As the wife really only wants the LOOK of it and the wide fireplace ....she doesnt give a monkeys about flues and stuff. and BCO would be Ok with this ? ..I presume or you wouldn't have suggested it. Due to the daft deep fireplace though I will still need an RSJ or something to support that inner chimney wall but hey sounds like a plan ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 You will still need a lintel over the opening yes, but you can also tie in the chimney with some metalwork as you go as it’s not exactly something you want swaying in the wind .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Ed_MK said: and BCO would be Ok with this ? .. And there lays the problem . BCO should have asked for your detailed proposal from the designer BEFORE you laid a single brick. I kinda knew this was a horse > cart situation but TBH I didn't want to say. Take heed of @PeterW'S comments as he's above and beyond in his replies here. You can take a horse to water, but sometimes it needs kicking, thrice, in the bollocks before any water gets consumed. Yes, the 4m wobbly sail at the top will need lateral ties to the superstructure, I wouldn't be able to sleep if it was my house and it was not suitably tied. Sometimes I get unsympathetic. Usually coupled with a ? day, but often always fortified by folk asking questions that they should already have been provided answers to, inclusive of the cost of their build package and process thereof. This forum fills some serious gaps in what 'should' be a fluid process between client and building supplier / contractor. Not just in this instance, so @Ed_MK please excuse me for generalising here, but thank F@@@ places like this exist. Fwiw, I'm learning too. "Every day is a school day". 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_MK Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 Trust me Nick ...i am glad i found this place and have already told dozens of selfbuilders/DIY-ers about it! And from what I can see its not "places" ..its just HERE ! ?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Thanks for an informative thread, all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_MK Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 and its not over yet LOL We have finally decided on the Balanced Flue Option and so instead of going Up Up and out...It will now go Up a bit and then through the Chimney Wall and Out But i do have some other questions ...to see what other people think. 1. Being that the chimney is effectively "blocked" is it wise to leave some sort of air gap still ..just in case of fumes or any small leakage ...either a void upwards ...and the chimney capped with a cowl ..or some air brick lower down ? 2. All this talk of "swaying in the wind" has me worried ...What ties would you guys recommend from brick across that 50mm void to the TF, and is it possible to have TOO MANY or should i just get my brickie to go Rambo and shoot one in every 2 courses , every 2 bricks across LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 does the TF kit not come with ties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Wall ties and structural ties are two different things. I’d want some metalwork set into the brick work every metre thats screwed back to the frame with something decent. The loading on a chimney that can potentially twist is much higher than a flat wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 31 minutes ago, Ed_MK said: 1. Being that the chimney is effectively "blocked" is it wise to leave some sort of air gap still ..just in case of fumes or any small leakage ...either a void upwards ...and the chimney capped with a cowl ..or some air brick lower down ? If you void the chimney then it needs water egress points and also a cavity tray. I would cap the pots off with proprietary caps and then weeps at the bottom. Fumes can’t get into the chimney itself as a balanced flue has to be gas tight ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_MK Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 hour ago, dpmiller said: does the TF kit not come with ties? Not from Potton ..it is probably on the extensive list of "extras" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_MK Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) any ideas Peter ..I can buy them before next week. Is there something proprietary ..the TF is i THINK 19mm OSB or Ply with a pink foam centre (under all that silver stuff) ...its certainly heavy when you pick up even a small panel ..so i suppose the "strapping or ties" has to be something that provides a firm fix to ply . I see Ancon do a few ...but are they substantial enough, some of them are recommended for 15m high! ...but again its a chimney as Peter said and not a wall https://www.ancon.co.uk/products/wall-ties-restraint-fixings/cavity-wall-ties/ties-for-timber-frames Edited July 18, 2018 by Ed_MK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_MK Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 Well have i finally cracked it Is my design ok ? bricklayer is coming in a week and I have sent these to an SE who says he can advise me on RSJ requirements online-style ...no doubt for a few hundred quid ! Anyway ..taking into account what Peter and others said about thermal bridging and the like ... here it is ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 You can lose the 50mm cavity around the outside of the chimney and add it to the insulation layer and job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_MK Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 32 minutes ago, PeterW said: You can lose the 50mm cavity around the outside of the chimney and add it to the insulation layer and job done. hmmm ...how would i set that out Peter ? Also after the Lounge ceiling / fireplace opening ..the layout will change (as below) much narrower * I take it the chimney insulation can be omitted here as after the ceiling it is continuous ..? * but again how do i treat the 50mm cavity around the 3 sides of the chimney ..can it just be "closed off"? * also would you continue with the 7nm blocks up the stack to the top?...they are strong ...but the downside is if they have the Ancor Fixings drilling them would be FUN if i remember from the past projects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Need to draw the sections - doesn’t work like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_MK Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 2 hours ago, PeterW said: Need to draw the sections - doesn’t work like that... OK ....i didnt think it would be that easy. I think i will wait until the online SE gets back to me today/monday see what he says and provides i suppose i need it for later in case the BCO asks how i made the calc for the RSJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Standard HX lintel will be fine but let him come back. Should be no more than £50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_MK Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 Thanks Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_MK Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 Well I am probably agonising over this chimney design more than anything on this house LOL. The SE should get back to me today ..so at least I will know what RSJ goes in but ...I have redrawn the design and tried to use sections (as Peter suggested) Don't laugh.. but I am not sure the UPPER part of the chimney NEEDS a cavity ? also I am still not sure how to handle the transition area ..between sections A and B I put it all on this big PDF ...you can zoom in quite close to see text and stuff. Sizes and relations should be fairly accurate Chimney_Layout_Ed.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Top section doesnt need block and you need to lose the 50mm cavity around the fire back as before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Would it not be much simpler to move the chimney inside the room so it sits out from the wall whatever depth you need it for your chosen stove. Then run out the flue through the wall as you have planned. This would leave the gable with a straight wall and save you a fortune in materials and labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_MK Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 It might be ..but the feature and look of the chimney and Fireplace is what the wife likes about that design she doesn't want a real fire ...but likes the STYLE of it ...So the Huntingdon 40 and the deep hearth will give her the LOOK.... and if i use the BF out to the rear ..i dont have to invest in a load of liners and fitting that will NEVER be used. But yes ...that external chimney has to stay on plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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