New house plans...

[caliwag]

Aye Peter. In our town house/flat, the (so-called) design featured a small narrow kitchen with a sink/drainer under the window. I had to stand on the sink to open the window for ventilation. On my redesign I worked in french windows and a julette balcony with the sink to one side...relative heaven. A small table and stool in the opening window/doors for a friendly chat while I did the washing up or whatever. Not a fan of dishwashers, but they do the job plainly, for busy peeps!

[Declan52]

31 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Most modern Britons don’t wash up ..... it goes in a dishwasher. 

 

I’ve seen some really nice designs that have the sink between high cabinets which don’t have windows - challenging convention isn’t a bad thing ..! 

In my kitchen and utility room both sinks aren't under the window. Never really understood the notion that you had to look out a window when your doing the dishes.

Anyone with kids in their teens will agree that the dishwasher is the world's greatest invention. Still can't figure out how they need to use nearly every piece of cutlery we own when they make  tea and toast.

[ProDave]

Dishwashers do NOT end washing up, they just reduce it.

 

My criticism of the big "familly room" is I don't want to spend a "quiet" evening watching telly with the fridge and the dishwasher churning away. I want somewhere quiet away from all that noise.  That is why we are having both.

[newhome]

15 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Dishwashers do NOT end washing up, they just reduce it.

 

How come? I put everything in the dishwasher. 

[billt]

Interesting discussion about the origin of dining rooms. Kitchens in affordable housing used to be very small, much too small to eat in, so you had to eat elsewhere. Very cheap houses would just have one room where you'ld eat and live. A bit more up market houses might have 2 'reception' rooms, so one could be used as a living room and one as a dining room. The house that I was brought up in had 2 rooms and a small kitchen, but central heating wasn't an option for the masses then, so only one room was heated and used as a living/dining room,  the other was kept for special occasions and the fire there would only be lit on Christmas day and Boxing day.

 

I agree with the OP about using dining rooms. We now have a big kitchen; big enough to have a dining table in it, but it's never used for eating. The dining room is next door and used for almost all our meals. It's a haven of peace from all the mechanical noises that the kitchen gadgets create! The point about a direct route is a good one; our dining room connects directly to the kitchen, having to go through a hallway would mean that the dining room didn't get used for dining. You could make the door from the kitchen to the hall a single door to increase the cupboard space and allow a door between kitchen and dining room. Personally I wouldn't have that enormouse bi-fold window in the kitchen; put it in the snug if you must have one. That way you could have normal windows in the kitchen outside wall with cupboards under the windows.

 

I don't see the objection to a big hall myself. It's a big expensive house, so it seems quite reasonable to have an impressive entrance hall. Externally, the design looks interesting, rather than the simple box (maybe with a bit of token decoration) that most new houses are. But removing the strange difference in floor areas between ground and first wouldn't detract from the appearance whilst simplifying the construction.

[newhome]

I wasn’t sure whether I would like large open plan living but I love it. I have a large kitchen / family room with large island for informal dining. I have 3 other reception rooms downstairs but I pretty much never use them. I appreciate that with a larger family you may want to use more of the rooms but they are there if I or a subsequent owner want to use them. I agree with someone further up, if you only fix one thing fix the dining room flow from the kitchen. 

 

[epsilonGreedy]

47 minutes ago, ProDave said:

My criticism of the big "familly room" is I don't want to spend a "quiet" evening watching telly with the fridge and the dishwasher churning away. I want somewhere quiet away from all that noise.  That is why we are having both.

 

 

I agree partially and we are juggling with the same square footage. After some long debates Swmbo and I decided that a modest open plan kitchen/dining + snug area would suit us most of the day and the other half of the downstairs area would be assigned to a proper sitting room. Cooking smells need to be confined.

[ProDave]

We have just spent a year living in the static caravan which has a "family room" with everything (apart from sleeping washing and s******g) all in the one space.  That has been plenty to convince me when I want to watch television * or listen to music, it must be away from all the noise etc of a kitchen.

 

* unless you are watching tv at meal times which is generally considered impolite.

 

I suppose if the OP can't join the kitchen to the dining room, he could put a serving hatch in that wall.

[epsilonGreedy]

34 minutes ago, billt said:

I don't see the objection to a big hall myself. It's a big expensive house, so it seems quite reasonable to have an impressive entrance hall.

 

 

I like a grand hall as well and visited a house this year that incorporated a near copy of the hall shown in the OP's plan, it made sense in that house because the total floor space was 5000 sq ft plus.

 

The grand hall concept taken to its extreme leads to an early medieval manor house layout. I stayed a few nights in such a house built in 1980 and it was an excellent formula with a main central living space running through the center 60% of the house end to end under a vaulted roof. Special function rooms including the kitchen led off this central space.

[joe90]

Our design was a large cottage kitchen with dining area and a separate lounge ( the other side of a hallway) . I also planned a large ish hallway with statement stairs ( I hate pokey hallways and narrow stairs).

Edited June 13, 2018 by joe90

[AliG]

As an aside, I recommend that everyone checks the specification of fridges, dishwashers etc. This will tell you how noisy they should be. Aim for quite ones in an open plan space.

 

You can barely tell when our dishwashers are running.

 

I even got a waste disposal that is so quiet I am scared that someone will leave it running.

 

I think if you can afford it and have the space it is nice to have the option of open plan living and specific rooms, which this house has.

 

A way to improve an open plan room though is to arrange it into areas via furniture, being l-shaped etc. Our kitchen is a cross, one side is the seating area, one side the table and one side the kitchen. I don't like when a kitchen is designed with the kitchen area just open to the seating area. I think there is room to do this in the space.

[Bitpipe]

3 hours ago, CADjockey said:

 

The cellar... yes, I know it's pouring money into a hole, quite literally, but for one thing I can't see where to put the additional rooms, connected 

to the house in some kind of flow with the other main rooms and have them on the GF where they belong. Yes I will have a 9m space above 

the garage, but I don't plan on going out to the garage to watch a movie. And for another thing, we want a cellar. Additionally it's kind of

free planning space.

 

 

We had to twist our architect's arm to include a basement and it's the best idea we had - just think carefully on how it works with the house above - ideally you want it to follow the footprint as much as possible - at the very least spine walls etc.

 

The cost per m2 is quite reasonable but only if you go large - small basements are quite expensive. 

[caliwag]

Aye, interesting. If you look at the floor plans of the 1900 houses (even the modest ones) they usually servants quarters, separate stairs, and small kitchen/scullery areas. But dining and office spaces were sometimes alcoves with large sliding, pocket doors, and generous bay windows. Of course every room had a coal fire (no central heating), including the entrance/receiving hall...no effective living room,  just a drawing room for the master. I assume Swmbo was in the garden or hall. First world war slowly snuffed all this out.

[MikeSharp01]

3 hours ago, CADjockey said:

Two things that we didn't like about it from experience was the simple fact that we don't want to sit in the same room as the 

pots and pans whilst eating and also have the smell of food lingering about the combined space after.  Or maybe we are just grumpy 

and unsociable, or maybe that's just me ?

Then go for the two dishwasher solution mentioned elsewhere here. That way you get the pans out of the way, if you have MVHR you won't get any smells and anyway it is probably just you. Just provide a door into the dining room from the kitchen. You can still gather your dinner party guests in the drawing room, it has beem so long since one has had a drawing room, for the canepes and aperatifes and then frog March them through the cavernous  hall to the dinning room and food etc can be brought in, as and when, via the servants route from the kitchen. How cool is that.

[jack]

My friends don't give a stuff that they can see a few pots and pans poking out of the sink from the table, and neither do I. We're generally too busy enjoying ourselves to even notice! 

 

MVHR takes care of the smells - they're simply never a problem.

[newhome]

7 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Then go for the two dishwasher solution mentioned elsewhere here.

 

My next door neighbours only have 1 dishwasher but it’s in their utility room so they can shut the door when it’s on if they want to. I think I prefer mine in the main kitchen but it’s an option if you want to remove the dishwasher noise from the equation. I have to admit I barely notice the dishwasher running tbh. The beep as it ends is the only noticeably loud thing but I could disable that if I really wanted to. 

[jack]

Buy a decent dishwasher and you'll barely hear it. Our Siemens makes a very occasional groaning sound as it changes mode, but other than that it's virtually silent - certainly the noise isn't in any way annoying, and I say that as someone with distraction issues and bat-like hearing.

[Gone West]

3 hours ago, ProDave said:

Dishwashers do NOT end washing up, they just reduce it.

 

Having a dishwasher in our houses definitely ended washing up in a sink.

[newhome]

3 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

Having a dishwasher in our houses definitely ended washing up in a sink.

 

Me too! Everything goes in and if it dies so be it! 

[ProDave]

2 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

Having a dishwasher in our houses definitely ended washing up in a sink.

So you don't use ANYTHING wooden or plastic in the process of cooking or preparing food? Or an aluminium coffee pot or salad serving imlements? Or a plastic lunch box or water bottle that needs cleaning? Or plastic cat bowls?

 

And you don't want to rinse out the plastic stuff going for recycling (last items through the washing up bowl)

 

And you don't want to wipe around the cooker and worktops with a nice hot soapy dishcloth to keep everything clean? (first use of clean hot water before starting the washing up)

 

We are obviously a very disorganised household as even with a dishwasher, one bowl full of manual washing up is done every day.

 

 

 

[Declan52]

As Dave's points out we still use the sink for some stuff including pots and pans but all the plates, cups and cultery go in the dishwasher. 

[Gone West]

2 minutes ago, ProDave said:

So you don't use ANYTHING wooden or plastic in the process of cooking or preparing food? Or an aluminium coffee pot or salad serving imlements? Or a plastic lunch box or water bottle that needs cleaning? Or plastic cat bowls?

 

And you don't want to rinse out the plastic stuff going for recycling (last items through the washing up bowl)

 

And you don't want to wipe around the cooker and worktops with a nice hot soapy dishcloth to keep everything clean? (first use of clean hot water before starting the washing up)

 

We are obviously a very disorganised household as even with a dishwasher, one bowl full of manual washing up is done every day.

 

 

 

We have silicone utensils which go in the dishwasher. We don't have any aluminium pots and our plastic storage boxes are dishwasher proof. We clean hob and worktops with a spray cleaner. We don't own a washing up bowl.

[newhome]

7 minutes ago, ProDave said:

So you don't use ANYTHING wooden or plastic in the process of cooking or preparing food? Or an aluminium coffee pot or salad serving imlements? Or a plastic lunch box or water bottle that needs cleaning? Or plastic cat bowls?

 

And you don't want to rinse out the plastic stuff going for recycling (last items through the washing up bowl)

 

And you don't want to wipe around the cooker and worktops with a nice hot soapy dishcloth to keep everything clean? (first use of clean hot water before starting the washing up)

 

 

 

All plastic goes in the dishwater, dishwasher proof, top rack. Plastic to be recycled goes in too (sometimes that isn’t dishwasher proof so it dies a bit but still gets shoved in the recycling). Pots go in. No aluminium (induction). Out of interest why can’t aluminium go in the dishwasher? Bean to Cup coffee machine so no pot. 

 

Spray cleaner here too and if I want to wipe anything with a hot cloth I run the hot tap. 

[PeterW]

3 minutes ago, newhome said:

...and if I want to wipe anything with a hot cloth I run the hot tap....

 

Has the novelty of not having to turn the heating on to get hot

water worn off yet ..?? 

[jack]

16 minutes ago, ProDave said:

So you don't use ANYTHING wooden or plastic in the process of cooking or preparing food? Or an aluminium coffee pot or salad serving imlements? Or a plastic lunch box or water bottle that needs cleaning? Or plastic cat bowls?

 

And you don't want to rinse out the plastic stuff going for recycling (last items through the washing up bowl)

 

And you don't want to wipe around the cooker and worktops with a nice hot soapy dishcloth to keep everything clean? (first use of clean hot water before starting the washing up)

 

We are obviously a very disorganised household as even with a dishwasher, one bowl full of manual washing up is done every day.

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that you don't need a kitchen sink!

 

We don't put our pots and frying pans through the dishwasher, but they clean up very fast in the sink. Plastic gets a quick rinse before recycling. Everything else goes in the dishwasher.