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My holiday off-topic thread.

 

I am trying to understand the cost of buying coffee for a bean to cup machine. The context is that we are thinking of installing one in the gym for members and I want to understand the costs.

 

For my own use, i use a local company established since the 1920s who currently charge about £3.00 for 125g (4oz), £5.95 for 250g, and £23.50 for 1kg. This is for roasted on site beans in a number of blends, and I get another 10% off if I spend more than about £45 at one time.

 

That comes to about £2.10-£2.20 per 100g as retail.

 

As a comparison supermarket prices for various brands seem to vary from about <£1 per 100g (eg Aldi) to >£3 per 100g (eg Harvey Nicks brand at Ocado). That says I am probably getting a decent deal as a retail purchaser at their normal prices.

 

But ultimately I need to know what I should expect to pay for really top quality coffee beans as a small wholesale customer analagous to a small or medium sized resraurant.

 

What do you pay for your own nice coffee?

 

Ferdinand

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Surely it's the flavour that's important, not the provenance?

 

I'd opine that B2C gives a different flavour- I've tried stuff that's nice in dad's cafetiere in our delonghi and it tastes crap. We've been stuck on Tesco's Original beans for some time although I yearn for a cup from the machine that tastes like breakfast filter coffee in most hotels...

 

Do you have a price per cup/ profit level in mind?

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I’m not really a coffee drinker per se (prefer tea) so am not one to comment on the taste really, but I have a bean to cup machine here so I use it a little bit. I used to get mine from eightpointnine that I signed up to when I bought the machine but kept forgetting when they were due to come etc so cancelled my membership and now I just buy from Amazon. There is lots of choice there and easy to buy in 1kg packs or multiple packs for a range of prices. 

 

What I would do is buy several different varieties of coffee for the gym, put a notice up when you swap the beans over saying what type of coffee it is, and ask for feedback on what people prefer. Demonstrates customer care too. One man’s meat (or coffee) is another man’s poison, so hitting the mark with a popular choice is important rather than what any one individual favours. 

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The local Electricfix branch put up a sign asking what tea/coffee brands customers would prefer with a pen for you to write it down. There was the usual PG, Yorkshire etc as expected. Part way down someone wrote:

 

"that cat poo coffee"

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5 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

I'd opine that B2C gives a different flavour- I've tried stuff that's nice in dad's cafetiere in our delonghi and it tastes crap. We've been stuck on Tesco's Original beans for some time although I yearn for a cup from the machine that tastes like breakfast filter coffee in most hotels...

 

The problem is that a bean to cup machine gives you an espresso mixed with a lot of water, which is the same as an Americano in a coffee shop. To me, these always taste thin and acidic. If it's the richer, fuller mouth feel of filter or cafetiere coffee you're after, consider getting an Aeropress. I've had one since 2006 and would never be without one. In fact, we have two so I can make mine and 'ers at the same time. 

 

I generally drink black coffee at home, made in the Aeropress. While I save to finish off our pantry (which will have space for a proper grinder and coffee machine), I'm just using Sainsburys pre-ground Taste the Difference Colombian. It's great for day-to-day drinking, with lots of body. I also use the Aeropress with the same coffee to make my wife a latte using milk frothed with my La Pavoni Europiccola, and she thinks it's better than what any of the high street coffee shops give you. Of course, it's still some way from what you get in a specialist cafe.  

 

Just now, Onoff said:

"that cat poo coffee"

 

Civet coffee. A complete scam for parting idiots from their money. :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

For my own use, i use a local company established since the 1920s who currently charge about £3.00 for 125g (4oz), £5.95 for 250g, and £23.50 for 1kg. This is for roasted on site beans in a number of blends, and I get another 10% off if I spend more than about £45 at one time.

 

That's pretty much what I pay for the good stuff, more in some cases (I generally buy online from places like HasBean). For day-to-day drinking I usually have Tesco's or Sainsbury's or Taylors at around £3 per 250g.

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There is only one  possible answer for Lancaster, Lancashire. Atkinsons Price ? Stratospheric. 

 

When roasting on China street, you can smell it for a mile downwind . It has a coffee room next door to the shop populated by the local psueds discussing  Occam's Razor and Brexit , teen nerds coding the next generation of computer viruses, and Hooray Henrietta Mamas explaining their views on anything in a loud voice: while their snotty 4 year old brats terrorise everyone within 100 square meters. (You can always tell an ex-teacher can'tcha?)

 

Love the place. Good honest fun. Twice a year is all I can stand. Try it

 

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Posted (edited)

So much of this is about the style of coffee you like.  I shop in Aldi and their coffee is okay, my preferred one by some margin is the rich Java; I'm not keen on citrus flavours in my coffee, and this is very chocolately and, in my opinion, a very decent coffee and on a par with Waitrose Columbian though slightly less oily.  Unfortunately, they don't do it as beans.  It's £1.99 for a 200g bag, which I think is a very competitive price.  I always make this in a French press (cafetiere) as, for my taste, I think this gives the nicest and fullest flavour from a coffee - a decent brew time, you can taste all the volatile oils more, most of which get lost in the espresso process to my mind.

 

To be honest, I find many of the Italian style ones disappointing.  I have a friend who gives me catering packs of Lavazza (can't remember which one, but it's in a dark blue bag) and it's acceptable but not brilliant.  Being free to me sways my opinion greatly here, but I would never pay full price for it as it's not my favourite by any means.  I use this in my Krups espresso machine but use an IberItal grinder; the grinder has never gone wrong, I've got through about 3 Gaggia machines and replaced with a Krups a couple of years ago which is coping nicely with my caffeine habit.  The Lavazza, aside from the dark roast, has a definite citrus tang to it; I'm not sure what the catering pack price is, though I could find out.

 

An alternative that could be convenient in the gym is to consider a cold brew coffee system.  They are starting to appear here now.  I tried this a few years back and it makes a really smooth, drinkable brew that is a bit like using Camp coffee in that you just add hot water to the concentrated coffee liquor that drips out overnight.  No good if you like that layer of dense crema on top, though.

 

I think that you should be able to get decent coffee for about £1 per 100g, but whether it makes a decent brew depends on what you do with it once you've opened the packet.

 

Need a coffee now - the power of suggestion!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by vivienz
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Not read all the thread as it’s sunny out and I am just in grabbing a fantastic coffee, been drinking this for years. If you like BLACK unadulterated coffee then this is absolutely fantastic. I have tried so many others and keep coming back to this. Great value, consistent product. Cannot rave about it enough. Never once had a problem with it. I am pretty fussy about coffee and prefer not to drink bad coffee but also can’t afford real pukka stuff. This is such good value for money. 

385662B4-B7E6-42F8-92E5-7BEF7867C08D.jpeg

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Posted (edited)

Interesting comments.

 

@dpmiller It is about both taste and provenance ie brand as part of the gym thing is about the place - particularly as as a local gym we rely on loyalty and commitment, rather than most people giving up and still paying which is the chain gym business model. We get one quarter to one third of the members through the door on any given day.

 

Traditionally CrossFit gyms have been quite stripped out, but the trend in the last couple of years has been to have luxuries such as showers, and also wider ranges of services. So we have these in our new unit.

 

Members’ areas have always been present as it is more gym community based than a Globo gym. It is also because the memberships tend to be hundreds not thousands, often in a single space, members know each other better. Card entry systems and lockers are often not present. So any coffee bar would probably be honesty-box based.

 

My goals are not excess profit margins, but being sure of not losing money. We do not want the 80% gross margin over ingredients of the coffee chains, and I would like to offer a price that will encourage it to be an easy purchase ... perhaps £1 per cup if we can do it. I wonder if I can find a machine that can hold say 3 types of bean.

 

There is also something of a culture that coffee before workout is also fashionable as a thing to do. There are even specialist niche brands around, some of them making slghtly dodgy almost-medical claims. Personally I think locally roasted coffee would be a good local distinctive for us, and we believe in supporting local businesses. I think our members do too.

 

Traditionally CrossFit gyms also have community programmes and offer discounts for eg uniformed services - I think that is a transfer from the USA-lead culture, where armed forces veterans have huge respect.

 

In my own kitchen I guess I am happy to pay 50-100% over best supermarket prices for something which is local to me and high quality, and I do think I can tell the difference in taste. I will try the one @jack suggested to see how it does, though I am not particularly a Fair Trade fan; I think commercial services and products should be offered through the open market rather than tax avoidance structures such as charity shops and social enterprises. They also told be a few years ago when I asked that they were not interested in Fair Trade for small U.K. businesses.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ferdinand

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We buy this https://www.gordonstcoffee.co.uk/product/glasgow-roast/ or Dear Green - always freshly roasted. Obviously quite a bit more than you are paying. I would be approaching the local company again and trying to get a better price - I. E no spend limit (it'll be a long term relationship so the £45 thing should be irrelevant) and bigger discount (Gordon St offer a free bag every 6) - you're hardly going to bulk buy and lose the freshness. Anticipate how many bags over a year and make sure they are aware.  

 

We have a Sage machine and have tried supermarket beans - Yeurch. And very hard to get it to espress properly. Anyone who likes a stronger flavour can have a double shot, any wooses like me can enjoy a single shot.  ?

 

 

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17 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

I will try the one @jack suggested to see how it does, 

 

I wasn't really suggesting that for espresso, just saying that I find it acceptable for a filter/Aeropress type coffee. I've never made espresso with it, and it definitely isn't near the quality of a specialist coffee provider like Hasbean or Square Mile.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, jack said:

 

I wasn't really suggesting that for espresso, just saying that I find it acceptable for a filter/Aeropress type coffee. I've never made espresso with it, and it definitely isn't near the quality of a specialist coffee provider like Hasbean or Square Mile.

 

No fuss - i will try it anyway :-). And the others.

Edited by Ferdinand
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jamiehamy said:

We buy this https://www.gordonstcoffee.co.uk/product/glasgow-roast/ or Dear Green - always freshly roasted. Obviously quite a bit more than you are paying. I would be approaching the local company again and trying to get a better price - I. E no spend limit (it'll be a long term relationship so the £45 thing should be irrelevant) and bigger discount (Gordon St offer a free bag every 6) - you're hardly going to bulk buy and lose the freshness. Anticipate how many bags over a year and make sure they are aware.  

 

We have a Sage machine and have tried supermarket beans - Yeurch. And very hard to get it to espress properly. Anyone who likes a stronger flavour can have a double shot, any wooses like me can enjoy a single shot.  ?

 

 

 

I have just put in a phone call to find out the name of the person to talk to. The price I quoted was what I pay retail when I go in every 3 or 4 months and buy a selection. The £45 or £50 includes cocoa-dusted chocolate almonds in reasonable quantity too. I tend to go on the bike when I can - nice cross country ride, so I may be remembered.

 

I have the impression that they *do* provide a stocking service. Just need the background to be able to have a good debate with the other owners of the gym before they come to any fixed opinions.

 

At the Northern Tea Company they have the coffee in bins like a grain shop, and a tea room with as many varieties of tea. 

 

I got interested because one specialist supplier to gyms was quoting us £9.50 per bag, and offering a 20% off voucher code at their website - which sounded a little pricey and perhaps prioritising image and brand profile over taste more than I would like.

 

I am guessing if we look at 1-2 cups per member per week that would be a reasonable guesstimate of qty, which suggests they will have one cup between every 2nd visit and every 4th visit on average. 100 -200 members would give 100-400 cups per week or 5k-20k cups per year. Call it 10g per cup, and that is 50kg to 200kg of coffee per year, which at £20 per kg is £1000 to £4000 per year for the supply of coffee. A lorra-lorra coffee.

 

At £1 per cup that is £5k to £20k in revenue, so some noticeable potential for a significant if not crucial loss or profit. 

 

Checks on the maths are most welcome. 10g per cup is a reasonable estimate for coffee per cup, and is 100 cups per kilo, which is an easy calculation.

 

It needs a short paper to inform the policy and lay out the landscape then we can consider options.

 

Based on the prices quoted in the thread we are at something like 25p per cup for the coffee (using £25 per kg and 10g per cup). I think that would require a price of £1 not 50p, as a 100% markup over ingedients is not imo sufficient for a certain profit considering buying a good machine, water, lecky, milk, crockery and cleaning. And the extra margin would help buy new barbels or sofas for the club area.

 

As a sanity check, I have seen capsule coffee at prices of between about 20p and 60p without getting into the wholesale chain.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

 

Edited by Ferdinand

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2 further questions if I may.

 

1 - What does your gym charge for coffee, if you have one that supplies it? What type of coffee?

 

2 - What do we think of capsule coffee such as Nespresso? My comment would be reliable but OK rather than very good.

 

F

 

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My question would be why are you offering anything other than a basic cash and carry coffee ...??

 

My choice of gym of based on the quality of the equipment, the cleanliness of the changing rooms and the lack of loud music and tv screens .... it’s a gym not a coffee shop ..!

 

I wouldn’t drink coffee after training either as the stimulus and diuretic effect isn’t what you need at that point but that’s another issue ..!

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Posted (edited)

Local gym has nada! Bannatyne’s has a cafe and serves Starbucks iirc at Starbucks prices. 

 

Nespresso isn’t going to be the coffee of choice for most but it does offer choice in terms of multiple pods / types In a way that a single bean machine doesn’t. I often have decaf from a coffee shop and sometimes soya or almond milk ;). I can’t drink more than a cup or 2 of normal coffee in a day. 

 

 

Edited by newhome

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4 hours ago, jamiehamy said:

have a Sage machine 

Been looking at them for a while but as yet not seen one working.  Which model did you go for.  

Is it loud when grinding, as I get up about 2hours before wife and need my coffee fix first thing. 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, dogman said:

Been looking at them for a while but as yet not seen one working.  Which model did you go for.  

Is it loud when grinding, as I get up about 2hours before wife and need my coffee fix first thing. 

 

My current morning regime is a one mug cafetiere with fresh ground (currently by hand). Top half becomes a short coffee in a glass. The bottom half is then diluted to a long coffee now that I have woken up.

 

There seem to be a fair number of double hopper bean to cup machines, which sounds promising for 'Espresso and an Alternative'.

 

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/coffee-machines/1403158/best-coffee-machine-2017-how-to-pick-the-right-coffee-machine-for-you


F

Edited by Ferdinand

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You will probably find the B2C machines have no commercial warranty and they are an expensive bit of kit to go wrong. They don’t take nicely to being prodded to make them do things in the wrong order etc and will need regular descaling

 

There are plenty of coffee suppliers who do reduced rental on decent commercial machines with a service contract. You may also find the price per cup is closer to 15p all in. 

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