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Edpm at edges


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6 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

I suggest a liquid product so that you can easily detail around and onto the upstands.

What about the ‘pavers’ on stilts idea ?. Assuming you can get a system you can drive on ! . Could even have a pump below the stilts for drainage .

Whats this system actually called ???

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Brainwave attack !

Centre of plot I.e where you park waterproof concrete whatever 

To the sides stilts !

Then walk on glass is effectively not going to be ever submerged ! - same on other side !!

As long as you park straight ( not that we are ever going to park on it anyway )

Does THIS have some merit ? ( feeling very smug )

 

 

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By the time you have mucked about you will have to dig the concrete up anyway so I would take the lot up and start again. 

 

Sounds like the clown circus who put the rubber down didn’t do it properly and you need to get it up and get it done right. 

 

Unless there is a desperate need, I wouldn’t be putting another layer of concrete in as this could end up coming up in future ....

 

You need to design in some sort of drainage mechanism too - either that or ditch the pavers and go for waterproof concrete to the last 1” and then use resin bound gravel as the top surface and create a multi layer surface that has waterproofing built in every layer by design. 

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Ideally the whole roof should slope to the drainage channel. What you can end up with is an ostensibly flooded roof, aka standing water that taken as a whole (or just in isolated patches that can't drain) will exert considerable sideways pressure and ferret out any weak points. I recently saw an upside down roof with this problem. The insulation was sat atop the asphalt. Part of the solution was to cut a series of Vs in the underside of the insulation. A guy did it by hand. So neat it reminded me of acoustic tiles.

 

How about making good then tanking the reinforced concrete area. Then laying this stuff:

 

http://www.abg-geosynthetics.com/products/deckdrain.html

 

With the paving on top.

 

Still not 100% on the roof make up?

 

Mass concrete roof

EDPM

Reinforced concrete

Paving

 

?

 

 

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Spoke to the architect- my idea has merit !

And yes @PeterW I could duck about around each window and never find the leak(s).

Assuming I rip the lot up back to the rubber . Will the rubber come off the cement particle board ? . If not would a proper rubber roofer be happy to rubber over the top of existing rubber ??

Worry the ‘stilts’ will dig into rubber .

My architect is adamant water proof concrete doesn’t exist ?

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30 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Ideally the whole roof should slope to the drainage channel. What you can end up with is an ostensibly flooded roof, aka standing water that taken as a whole (or just in isolated patches that can't drain) will exert considerable sideways pressure and ferret out any weak points. I recently saw an upside down roof with this problem. The insulation was sat atop the asphalt. Part of the solution was to cut a series of Vs in the underside of the insulation. A guy did it by hand. So neat it reminded me of acoustic tiles.

 

How about making good then tanking the reinforced concrete area. Then laying this stuff:

 

http://www.abg-geosynthetics.com/products/deckdrain.html

 

With the paving on top.

 

Still not 100% on the roof make up?

 

Mass concrete roof

EDPM

Reinforced concrete

Paving

 

?

 

 

The roof make up was (top down )

 

pavers 

35mm reinforced concrete

rubber 

particle board 

vac insulation 

100mm reinforced concrete 

 

But I think that’s all going to change !

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1:40 you can shutter in easily so there should be no problem with less than that. 

 

Forget you had vac panel insulation in there - that won’t survive the concrete being ripped off it ....

 

Any chance you can reconsider this as not being a driveway ..?

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Price wise what would be the cost in  redoing the top by putting in another layer of edpm.  

Take the pavers and the bedding of and go with some one who uses this stuff on a regular basis.  Wouldn't affect your heights either like another layer of concrete plus no more breaking out. 

Do your upstands and level out where you have broke out the concrete so it's nice and flat.  The rubber guys ?  come in work their magic and you end up with the rubber sealed around your edges and upstands.  But done properly this time. 

Hard bit is finding a crew able to do this once and leave it leak free. 

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1 hour ago, pocster said:

Spoke to the architect- my idea has merit !

And yes @PeterW I could duck about around each window and never find the leak(s).

Assuming I rip the lot up back to the rubber . Will the rubber come off the cement particle board ? . If not would a proper rubber roofer be happy to rubber over the top of existing rubber ??

Worry the ‘stilts’ will dig into rubber .

My architect is adamant water proof concrete doesn’t exist ?

 

So your architect is a dick on two fronts? Specifying a non repairable design and assuming waterproof concrete doesn't exist? :)

 

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1 hour ago, PeterW said:

1:40 you can shutter in easily so there should be no problem with less than that. 

 

Forget you had vac panel insulation in there - that won’t survive the concrete being ripped off it ....

 

Any chance you can reconsider this as not being a driveway ..?

No chance. Was an important party of planning consent.


 

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I think then you need plan B which is to take the pavers up and have a company come in and put a full EDPM membrane across the whole of the deck including sealing up the edges of the frames for the roof lights and then re-lay the the pavers onto this as otherwise you will be forever chasing rainbows with this one. 

 

 

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Anyway!; I've thought about this more.

 

Potential plan.

 

Rip all out back to rubber

Remove rubber (I suspect that isn't possible) without damaging vac insulation under cement board.

New Rubber roof ; easy enough to test

Shutter 'parking area' 

Pour concrete in parking area (reinforced presumably)

Pavers on parking area to fall for slope. (I know architect was concerned if this 'wedge' of concrete would spread the car load enough (after-all I'm trying to avoid concrete on rubber))

Stilts either side for pavers and walk on glass.

 

2 issues I can think of

 

Would the stilts damage the rubber if they are sat on them with pavers above being walked on?

 

No 'fall' is made in the side 'stilted' bits so water could pool. (Stilts have to be set on flat ground)

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6 minutes ago, PeterW said:

I think then you need plan B which is to take the pavers up and have a company come in and put a full EDPM membrane across the whole of the deck including sealing up the edges of the frames for the roof lights and then re-lay the the pavers onto this as otherwise you will be forever chasing rainbows with this one. 

 

 

I just don't like concrete on the edpm; and I have to have that to spread the car load and protect the insulation. If I get a leak in the future I'm right back at square one ripping the whole lot up. If the edpm is exposed (apart from parking area) then it's accessible for repairs; thats got to be better surely?

Edited by pocster
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6 minutes ago, pocster said:

I just don't like concrete on the edpm; and I have to have that to spread the car load and protect the insulation. If I get a leak in the future I'm right back at square one ripping the whole lot up. If the edpm is exposed (apart from parking area) then it's accessible for repairs; thats got to be better surely?

 

You’re not reading it correctly 

 

pavers and sand off - then add the Membrane over top of existing concrete (repaired and smoothed) and then put sand and pavers back on. 

 

The idea with upstands won’t work with your current blocks as they are made for square pavers. 

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12 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

You’re not reading it correctly 

 

pavers and sand off - then add the Membrane over top of existing concrete (repaired and smoothed) and then put sand and pavers back on. 

 

The idea with upstands won’t work with your current blocks as they are made for square pavers. 

Will the up stands not sit next too each other with a rectangular long paver like mine is that the issue?

It's not a real problem if thats correct - I can re use these pavers elsewhere (not above the dwelling)

 

Ok; it's a thought. There's no way I can get the pavers off the concrete without damaging it. What's the best way to patch/fill the damage 35mm that sits above the old membrane?

 

Pavers are bed in concrete - wasn't allowed sand!

Edited by pocster
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