DreamingTheBuild

Scoping a Plot on the market

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I have been doing some work on a plot I have seen by way of an exercise, I doubt it will come to anything for reasons I am about to explain.

 

The plot in question is a side garden to a bungalow which is on a private road, however the road is unsurfaced and a gravel track. It does have planning permission for a house but I'm not convinced it has vehicular access because I have read elsewhere that if you sever a plot from a house in a no through private road then a new right of way might have to be created ie a large payment to the road owner. The owner is known and lives locally.  I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this situation and whether I could get a 100% answer without involving hundreds of pounds in conveyencing fees. I don't think the owner is even aware of the possible situation. If this is the case it would not surprise me if the track owner is waiting until the house gets built before making his move.

 

The other issue is on the pp there is this condition that no lorries can go down the track,  which is about 50m. The condition states all deliveries must be done by digger from 50m away. I think concrete could be poured from a long pipe. Neighbours on the planning application said the track can become a quagmire in winter and as it was a few of them I think this has some truth to it.

 

As for services I doubt they have checked that out either. There are four houses down this track so there must be pipes under the track but what if there is no spare capacity and I have to go 50m and then up a street somewhere? There are no manholes I can see so possibly sewage is going over back gardens, I would have to check this out very carefully.

 

If this plot sounds a total nightmare - it is! However it hasn't stopped them asking 45% of what I believe the finished value of the build would be. So I am very unlikely to be a buyer of this plot  but would welcome any experiences you have in the small chance the price comes down massively and the vehicle access can be resolved.

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4 houses down the track id the bit that rings an alarm bell to me.

 

Up here, more than 4 houses, you are required to surface the track to highways standard and have it adopted.

 

The right of access to the plot or not depends on the wording of the right of access to the existing bungalow.

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3 hours ago, DreamingTheBuild said:

However it hasn't stopped them asking 45% of what I believe the finished value of the build

As someone who’s never self built,I wonder if those of you who have have a rule of thumb percentage for plot purchase to sale value of build?

Assuming the issues @DreamingTheBuild mentions with this plot aren’t there. 

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21 minutes ago, Brickie said:

As someone who’s never self built,I wonder if those of you who have have a rule of thumb percentage for plot purchase to sale value of build?

Assuming the issues @DreamingTheBuild mentions with this plot aren’t there. 

Here in the Highlands my plot has ended up being about 25% of what I expect the total cost to be.  Had I not done so much of the work myself, that figure would have been nearer 20%

 

If I am very lucky, by the time I finish, the house might just be worth what it cost me.

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Here in the Scottish Borders my plot was 27% of the total build cost but it included the foundations (apart from the garage and extension), the PP and the building warrant that I guess had a value that ordinarily would have been part of the build costs. How much would circa 165 m2  traditional foundations cost to lay? 

 

I’m not sure that the % means much TBH. What matters is whether plot price plus build price equals market value, assuming you are bothered about that. Given that the house next door sold (10 years ago) for 20k more than my total build costs and I have an extension I would hope that I could recoop my costs but I suspect that it would be slow to sell given how long houses generally take to sell round here. 

 

 

 

 

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Land is a bit over price here in Fulwood 

about 40% of the total spend With doing most of the work ourselfs 

If I could find another plot in the same area I would buy it tomorrow 

But it’s unlikely that one will come up

 

A doctor bought a house near by For 380k It was in such a bad state it had to be demolished He’s building a house simalar to ours

Total spend 850k  No plans to sell Its were he wants to be 

 

As ground works were raking up a year ago I did wonder if We had over paid Seems like a bargain now

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I hear what you’re saying in regards to plot plus build price hopefully not exceeding market value. 

I just wondered if there was a ball park percentage people used when plot searching,to narrow things down. 

Say you were sat comparing 5 plots in different areas,assuming you roughly what size house you could build then a quick look on Zoopla for that area would give you an idea of finished market value. 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Brickie said:

I hear what you’re saying in regards to plot plus build price hopefully not exceeding market value. 

I just wondered if there was a ball park percentage people used when plot searching,to narrow things down. 

Say you were sat comparing 5 plots in different areas,assuming you roughly what size house you could build then a quick look on Zoopla for that area would give you an idea of finished market value. 

 

It’s the area that will change the % considerably. So a plot in the south of England will be much more than a plot in the north of Scotland for example so even if an identical house is constructed the % will be wildly different. 

 

And yes I imagine that most people will roughly work out what the completed house will be worth to see if the numbers stack up, although as @nod says sometimes it just comes down to where you want to be. 

Edited by newhome

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Posted (edited)

With access being the issue I’d be asking the seller to clarify exactly what the position was. A plot without access is virtually worthless.

Edited by Triassic

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Triassic said:

With access being the issue I’d be asking the seller to clarify exactly what the position was. A plot without access is virtually worthless.

 

Not to the seller if they get it away!  ? ?‍♀️.

Edited by Ferdinand

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2 hours ago, newhome said:

And yes I imagine that most people will roughly work out what the completed house will be worth to see if the numbers stack up, although as @nod says sometimes it just comes down to where you want to be. 

We are guilty of not doing that due diligence.

 

We built the last house, a 5 bedroom house 15 years ago now. So we knew exactly what it cost to build to the penny.

 

This time around we knew plot prices were higher and we ended up with a plot just 2 doors from our old house, at the bottom end of the price range for plots here currently.

 

We are building a smaller house than the previous one, but to a better specification.  What I had not factored in is the massive increase in building materials cost in that 15 years.  The build cost of our new smaller house is way exceeding the build cost of the last house.  The only way I am making the figures stack up is doing most of the work myself.

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Exactly Ferdinand. The trouble is if you go through the clarification process via a solicitor I've been quoted 450 quid before. I have found out from this article you do need to be very wary about buying a plot on a private road:

 

https://www.ashworths-solicitors.co.uk/news/private-roads/

 

Besides the access there is also the problem of maintaining the road, which can be a hefty sum.

 

I don't really know how it works with services as regards digging up a private road as residents need to use it to get to their houses. It is a fairly narrow track and what if digging a trench means people can't get down the road? Just thinking there might not be spare capacity and I might find myself in a situation like Christine Walker and her electric quote.

 

What I have heard is that you can get estimates in advance but after you buy the real quotes can be wildly different. I don't mean to be overly pessimistic but the history of this plot is two Estate Agents have ceased marketing it and it has failed at auction too.

 

newhome the Housebuilders bible has excavation costs and foundation costs of 8900 pounds on a 95sqm footprint. This is using an insured contractor.

 

brickie it seems to fluctuate between 25% and 50% based on supply and demand in the area plus the state of the housing market.

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8 minutes ago, ProDave said:

We are building a smaller house than the previous one, but to a better specification.  What I had not factored in is the massive increase in building materials cost in that 15 years.  The build cost of our new smaller house is way exceeding the build cost of the last house.  The only way I am making the figures stack up is doing most of the work myself.

 

It makes you wonder how any individuals building in the majority of Scotland make any money out of it (maybe they don't ......). I imagine the larger house builders benefit from buying materials much more cheaply than individuals, and building to possibly a lower spec than the standard self builder, especially in terms of the bits you can't see like insulation (and sometimes are even missed out completely!). Self builders will be much more keen to put things in that they perceive as important, often at great cost. 

 

I knew the figures would be tight for this house as a small builder had originally bought the plot with the aim of building 2 houses. He built one and put the foundations in for this one and then struggled to sell the completed one for the price he wanted but he wouldn't compromise on the price. When it eventually did sell he was near bankrupt (apparently) so sold off this plot as he could no longer afford to build the second house for profit. I still think that we could have got this plot for less had my hubby not been far too over keen to buy it. For him it was all about the process of building a house rather than worrying that it would cost more than it was eventually worth so it was down to me to keep the eye on the budget. I had a pretty detailed budget and plan with everything factored in (we thought) but it started running over so I looked at ways of cutting costs for the remaining work. So the expensive kitchen was scaled back to something much more affordable for example which is fine as I think it looks ok, and I bought much cheaper sanitary fittings (something I now regret). My old house in Kent has risen by 50% since I moved out (it was on the market last year with nothing having been done to it) but I know that this house will not have risen anything like as much which will make it a bit of a challenge as my current plan is to move back once I retire. Finding a plot to buy in Scotland is much easier than in England it seems but the numbers don't always stack up for sure. Some of the costs for connecting services that I've read on here for example have been frightening. I had 1k set aside for that (electric only) and was peeved that they wanted something like £1250. Reckon I had a lucky escape in hindsight! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Christine Walker said:

With regards to your connection to electricity I wish mine was £1250! Try 20 times that!

 

Yes, and I've seen others who have had similarly large quotes on here. I wonder if the connecting companies are now seeing this as a way to get big bucks from people (my connection was back in 2009 and a 3 phase connection). The SP Energy Networks website gives an indicative cost of £1836 for a single house but they have a monopoly so can in effect charge what they like sadly. 

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Sounds like the track is effectively a ransom strip. 

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On 29/04/2018 at 16:38, Temp said:

Sounds like the track is effectively a ransom strip. 

....in more ways than one ;)

 

Land costs are high - we were lucky we took a punt without PP and worked hard to get it - with PP it would have been out of the question.

If I was doing this again as a first timer, I'd say without doing lots of leg work the plot sounds tricky and with a few unknown unknowns ;)

 

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