Ferdinand Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, Hecateh said: I am looking at quotes for windows for 4 at 1200 x 1200 3 at 630 x 1200 1 patio - wanted bifold but settling for a 3 pane slider - 2700 x 2100 1 set of french doors with extra side panel to bedroom (Juliette balcony) 2 external doors - wanted composite but settling for uPVC Based on your number of £4.2k and an approx area of 23sqm I make that around £180 per sqm fitted ex VAT. That is not a bad number if you get the VAT back. Last year I posted details of the replacement 2G windows for the Little Brown Bungalow in a thread here: Mine me was very similar, but a replacement including fitting, not new and came in at £170 per sqm for 19 sqm. Differences: Mine was more bigger windows, and no sliding door. Repacement not new. Mine was white frame at u value of perhaps 1.5. Assume yours is similar. Grained finish adds 25-50% to material cost. Yours as an upstairs patio door. presumably scaffolding doesn’t as already there. Details in my quote are extended windowsills for possible EWI later (will not happen .. costs fortune), keyed alike for doors, anti-bump anti-snap locks on all doors (necessary in Yorkshire which is the home of the door snappers). Mine includes disposal of old widows etc, which is presumably a cost loading. If you can deal with the VAT issue, get the details as you want them, and the company are OK to deal with, then your quote seems good to me. I will PM you the people I used, who are near M1J28 so may be more in reach than Timbuctoo or Chelmsford. Pay at attention to the finish of the hinges and handles .. white or gold will wear more easily than silver imo.. Presumably you can ask for a little lollipop in order to clinch the order - maybe details as desired and 3.8k to 4K as the price. But perhaps if you change the details afterwards it will add to the cost. Read that thread and run your detailed requirement through these people which will give a check. Mine was 25% below the lowest they quoted in their range of prices. https://www.doubleglazingontheweb.co.uk/ May be worth talking to your local Eurocell as they are a nearly local supplier, based in Derbyshire. Ditto Synseal, but I do not have testimonials for the latter ... @Grosey used Eurocell iirc. Ferdinand Edited April 14, 2018 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hecateh Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 Just now, recoveringacademic said: @Hecateh, have you got someone you can trust to sit in on the meeting with you? Take notes at the meeting. Have an agenda (on paper). Construct the agenda carefully Stick to it. List the outcomes and deliverables for each point Send him a copy We did that on Monday, and yes I have a good friend, who made exactly those points and kept the meeting more or less on track. Difficult as he was being very defensive. Things have calmed down since then and we are able to talk. I'd be in even more of a mess if not for her. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) I think the best encouragement I can point out is that when you needed to build the Maginot Line for your foundations it actually ended up costing quite a few k less than initially predicted. Iirc. I tend to think that your priority needs to be .. as you have intimated ... to be wind and watertight plus other bits, then to pause and focus on the next stages. Ferdinand Edited April 13, 2018 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 52 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said: deliverables A word I have avoided since I was forced to do a totally pointless project management course. There was a craze of changing nouns to verbs, I hated it, so shall sunset that one 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hecateh Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 So he has come back with a couple of options for me There is £15858 left in the budget to bring him up to the 89K quote He will knock off £2100 for electrics £4000 for plastering £4000 for drive and £ 600 for bathroom and kitchen fitting which I don't think is enough - He's saying 1 man 4 days to fit 3 toilets, 3 basins and 2 showers) Which leaves £5158 to complete roof and gables, external drains, internal soil stack.and complete boundary wall To be added to this are the following variations £1398 tanking (which I knew about and signed) £1195 for new sewerage chamber as water board didn't accept original spec (known about) £ 1127 for 2 vellux windows in roof £1860 for soffits, fascias and gutters £300 to fit staircase with temp handrails £450 for suspended floor infill, porch joists, hangers, insulation and boards In relation to level access he wants to install aco drains on cement (16m) and build up level access to front door - with flag detail access That all (including the £5158) comes to a total of £12468.50 I don't know if this will make sense to anyone but it has helped me typing it out. AND I've spotted one discrepancy already. The quote does include for the boiler and this hasn't been mentioned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 52 minutes ago, Hecateh said: I'd be in even more of a mess if not for her. If you were my sister I would advise: Get to a weather tight shell by hook or crook. Distance yourself from this builder asap. Leave some money aside for landscaping the plot to a minimal standard even if this means some external doors or windows are blanked off with osb sheet. Spruce up and de clutter your main house by staging for sale. Then give yourself a complete mental holiday from the whole concept of selfbuild and head off for a few weeks while your house is on the market. When the house sale proceeds are banked, live offsite for 3 months as independent trades prepare your self build for minimal viable habitation. Move in then inch your build toward building control completion at a relaxing rate by employing trades on small < 7 day delivery targets and sacking those who fail. In general terms I think you have become too dependent on social bonding with your builder and he has taken advantage of this interpersonal dynamic. I saw the same thing happen with a close family member when she undertook a self build at a similar stage of life. Her main builder cost her £100k and half way through that build other family members wanted to lynch the guy. The most peculiar outcome is that the said family member still considered the builder as a new best friend even when the scope of the financial injury had become apparent. She viewed the builder as a mutual victim of circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hecateh Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: If you were my sister I would advise: Get to a weather tight shell by hook or crook. Distance yourself from this builder asap. Leave some money aside for landscaping the plot to a minimal standard even if this means some external doors or windows are blanked off with osb sheet. Spruce up and de clutter your main house by staging for sale. Then give yourself a complete mental holiday from the whole concept of selfbuild and head off for a few weeks while your house is on the market. When the house sale proceeds are banked, live offsite for 3 months as independent trades prepare your self build for minimal viable habitation. Move in then inch your build toward building control completion at a relaxing rate by employing trades on small < 7 day delivery targets and sacking those who fail. In general terms I think you have become too dependent on social bonding with your builder and he has taken advantage of this interpersonal dynamic. I saw the same thing happen with a close family member when she undertook a self build at a similar stage of life. Her main builder cost her £100k and half way through that build other family members wanted to lynch the guy. The most peculiar outcome is that the said family member still considered the builder as a new best friend even when the scope of the financial injury had become apparent. She viewed the builder as a mutual victim of circumstances. Sounds very familiar - and your advice sounds excellent. Edited April 13, 2018 by Hecateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hecateh Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 One big important question. I know the house needs soffits, fascias and gutters. Will it survive for a week or so without them Builder is saying not They weren't included in the quote and I have had a couple of prices below what he wants to charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 It will survive easily ( open rafter feet is always an option) BUT if you do it later it means you have to form a temp up stand for the bottom tile ( usually sits on the fascia to an extent) also it is a lot easier to do with scaffold up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 17 minutes ago, Hecateh said: One big important question. I know the house needs soffits, fascias and gutters. Will it survive for a week or so without them Builder is saying not They weren't included in the quote and I have had a couple of prices below what he wants to charge Driven rain / wind etc will find its way in. If there is finished internal work then you need a 100% wind / weathertight 'roof' so make the call. What's the difference between matey-boy and your quotes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Crossed with Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 40 minutes ago, Hecateh said: £ 600 for bathroom and kitchen fitting which I don't think is enough How are you with a spanner and screwdriver. I have been waiting for this opportunity to post this up, it came with my immersion heater element. Safety first children. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hecateh Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 So he has come back with a couple of options for me There is £15858 left in the budget to bring him up to the 89K quote He will knock off £2100 for electrics £4000 for plastering £4000 for drive and £ 600 for bathroom and kitchen fitting which I don't think is enough - He's saying 1 man 4 days to fit 3 toilets, 3 basins and 2 showers) Which leaves £5158 to complete roof and gables To be added to this are the following variations £1398 tanking (which I knew about and signed) £1195 for new sewerage chamber as water board didn't accept original spec (known about) £ 1127 for 2 vellux windows in roof £1860 for soffits, fascias and gutters £300 to fit staircase with temp handrails £450 for suspended floor infill, porch joists, hangers, insulation and boards In relation to level access he wants to install aco drains on cement (16m) and build up level access to front door - with flag detail access Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hecateh Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 minute ago, SteamyTea said: How are you with a spanner and screwdriver. I have been waiting for this opportunity to post this up, it came with my immersion heater element. Safety first children. Not too bad a basic DIY - very basic. Lived alone for a long time so have found most maintenance tasks doable - but I'm much less fit than i used to be. think my son will have to spare a bit of time for me and do these jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hecateh Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 23 hours ago, Construction Channel said: It will survive easily ( open rafter feet is always an option) BUT if you do it later it means you have to form a temp up stand for the bottom tile ( usually sits on the fascia to an extent) also it is a lot easier to do with scaffold up. 23 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: Driven rain / wind etc will find its way in. If there is finished internal work then you need a 100% wind / weathertight 'roof' so make the call. What's the difference between matey-boy and your quotes? No internal work and would get it done before that. B has quoted £1800 and my cheapest other quote was for £1400 - they knew the scaffold would be down. Maybe B will match it if it makes it easier for him to do the roof. Edited April 14, 2018 by Hecateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, Hecateh said: basic DIY - very basic When you are bored, and the sun is out, get some wood, old doors, copper and plastic pipe, some fittings and have a play. If you video it I am sure some of us will come along with suggestions. Then, when your house is finished and friends come around, you can say 'I hung that door', 'I fitted that crapper', 'That hole in the wall was me'. I have built boats in the past, but no one calls me "SteamyTea the Boat Builder", and I have fixed cars, but no one calls me "SteamyTea the car fixer", but one sheep!!! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hecateh Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 Trouble is the person that quoted me £1400 hasn't given me anything in writing or confirmed the price and I don't know who they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DundeeDancer Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 If I was in your shoes Hecateh, I would feel out my depth so would be looking to get some independent advice from some with extensive residential building experienced that could come to site and run through the plans and costs and sanity check things over. Maybe some with more Project Management experience could give guidance. Might cost you another £300 or so but you might be able to sleep easier at night. Best of luck! DD xx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hecateh Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 This is what I would like him to do Finish gables and roof, £5158 External drains, Internal soil stack (not sure what this means Finish Boundary wall Tank variation £1398 New chamber £1195 Velux windows £1127 (£620 already paid) Staircase Fit £300 £8558.00 And if he will meet - or even go half way to soffits etc he can have that too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hecateh Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 minute ago, DundeeDancer said: If I was in your shoes Hecateh, I would feel out my depth so would be looking to get some independent advice from some with extensive residential building experienced that could come to site and run through the plans and costs and sanity check things over. Maybe some with more Project Management experience could give guidance. Might cost you another £300 or so but you might be able to sleep easier at night. Best of luck! DD xx Don't know about out of my depth - feel like I've got concrete boots on as well My son is an architect technician, he is going to come over tomorrow and go through it with me. He has also totally renovated a couple of houses himself so his experience is not all just on paper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 You mentioned the boiler. Is all hot / cold / heating already encompassed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hecateh Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 I don't know It has never been mentioned as an extra but his current calcs don't show it as either included or as an extra - that is one point I have noted for discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hecateh said: Sounds very familiar - and your advice sounds excellent. Stockholm Syndrome . Edited April 13, 2018 by Ferdinand 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 6 hours ago, Hecateh said: One big important question. I know the house needs soffits, fascias and gutters. Will it survive for a week or so without them Builder is saying not They weren't included in the quote and I have had a couple of prices below what he wants to charge Just checked my pricing Main fascias 18mm Magnum white fascia, 9mm upvc soffit total 40 lin M Gable fascias - no soffits 20 lin M Guttering 130mm deepflow Anthracite Brett Martin guttering 50 lin M 65 mm downpipes 5 No guttering £230 fascia etc £420 fitting £600 Thats on a big L shape new build so I’m thinking your pricing is a bit steep ..? As @Construction Channel said, you need the fascias to support the tiles so they need to be included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hecateh Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 4 hours ago, Hecateh said: I don't know It has never been mentioned as an extra but his current calcs don't show it as either included or as an extra - that is one point I have noted for discussion Boiler is included - but nothing else on the plumbing fitting it is only included if they get the rest of the plumbing as an extra. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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