How do you contact an uncontactable tradesperson?

[ToughButterCup]

Friday night tradition in our household demands attendance at our local, the Unwashed Self-Builders  Arms - a pub until recently owned by HM the Queen.

A pub so well designed that anyone using the carpark gets treated to a ringside view of the shake,  bob and tuck routines (some more extravagant than others)  performed by occupants of the men's loo.  But hey this is West Lancashire.

 

By the fireside we chatter about the week gone by, and plans for the next. We’ve been going to this pub for many years now. Time enough to notice patterns of behaviour, and be able to read the car park accurately enough to see who’s in and who isn’t. 

 

One thing that unites trades folk in this pub is their tendency to gaggle at one end of the bar. A phenomenon that I have seen for years, but not really noticed. Until recently.

 

Trades people are an elite. They have wealth far beyond the more common understanding of the term. It is  at least in part an earned elitism.

First, most have expertise if not by formal qualification, then by experience: sometimes both. Many of those same experts are fantastically adept at avoiding communication. In exactly the same way as formally qualified, licensed professionals make themselves invisible, incommunicado behind layers of secretarial support, trades folk have a simpler but just as effective modus operandum. Don't answer the phone. Let their voicemail inbox fill up, Or maybe switch the ringtone off. 

 

Then they are also an elite because of the professional networks they construct. The one slight difference about their professional networks is that they started building it in primary school. How many doctors, teachers, dentists, work daily with their best mates from their school days? 

 

So many times in the last couple of years I have heard and watched  trades people contacting a series of other tradesmen by phone. Each phone call was answered instantly. Each conversation came up with the resolution to a problem we needed to solve jointly. (well at least the promise of one). And how many BuildHubbershave that high a strike rate? 

I’ll tell you: every single trades person on this forum. And none of the rest of us.

 

I made a huge mistake: I assumed that trades people would always communicate efficiently, or at least as efficiently as I had to in my professional career. How naive, how smoked could I be? 

 

I now use four phones, not just one. Why?
I’m certain  that  trades people will almost always answer a call from a new phone number. It's a self-limiting tactic, though.

How do you contact an uncontactable tradesperson?
 

[Redoctober]

8 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

I assumed that trades people would always communicate efficiently, or at least as efficiently as I had to in my professional career. How naive, how smoked could I be? 

 

Very true. In complete agreement. Hopefully once in the area and on site things will ease for me and the need for 4 phones won't be necessary !!

PW.

[Construction Channel]

You need to make it easier for them to just answer the phone, E.g pester them enough that they give in,

In this case, you are lucky, you try getting in contact with labourers / apprentices, 

 

I would add in my case you need to call between 8-5, 5.01 its text or nothing at all.

[SteamyTea]

You could try downloading some messenger apps i.e Whattsapp, Viber, Telegram, then you can send a picture of yourself standing by their van, without or without their favourite child/pet/CD/beer as hostage.

 

I agree that text is best, there is no misunderstanding when it is written correctly about what is wanted.

 

I once had a customer bounce a cheque on me.  I called him up and asked politely of there was a problem.  He said 'no' and told me to represent the cheque.

Then, within an hour he called again to say that he had overpaid me (he had not), I was very suspicious by then as he said he would write me a new cheque.

I represented the old cheque anyway.  I week later he left a message to say that I would not be getting any further work from him, I purposely ignored that call, because:

The original check had cleared.

 

He was a Barrister.  Should have got a proper contract written.

Edited February 3, 2018 by SteamyTea

[Nickfromwales]

WhatsApp is best as they know that you know that they have received the message, so they would then be purposefully avoiding / ignoring you if they didn't come straight back to you. 

imessage on Apple does the same. 

[RichS]

Yes, but Whatsapp only turns to 2 blue ticks if they open the message. They could see they have a message from you but still ignore it.

[ToughButterCup]

17 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

WhatsApp is best as they know that you know that they have received the message,[...]

 

TOPS !

I loathe social media stuff, and try really hard not to use it. BUT.....

 

[MikeSharp01]

3 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

earned elitism

I feel a Lawry Taylor moment coming on...

3 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

n they are also an elite because of the professional networks they construct. The one slight difference about their professional networks is that they started building it in primary school. How many doctors, teachers, dentists, work daily with their best mates from their school days? 

Yep I was right....

3 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

I made a huge mistake: I assumed that trades people would always communicate efficiently, or at least as efficiently as I had to in my professional career. How naive, how smoked could I be? 

Seems like you are confusing your professionalism code with their professionalsm code and perhaps not being open enough to the nature of difference between professional codes and the sometimes conflicting ethical standpoints they take. In his article on professoonal codes of practice and ethical conduct of 1994 Angus Dawson set out a cognatavist theory endevouring to show how codes and professionalsm can be mixed up. ( Well my reading anyway )

[Construction Channel]

Another point to make about text/ WhatsApp is it gives the recipient a chance to construct a response. The main reason I don’t answer the phone after 5 from anyone related to work is they almost undoubtably want me to do something.

I find it very hard to say no, so on phone calls I used to find myself getting into things I don’t want to do just because I don’t want to be rude.

By text at least I get a chance to ask the boss / think of a nice way of saying no. 

[Nickfromwales]

4 hours ago, Construction Channel said:

Another point to make about text/ WhatsApp is it gives the recipient a chance to construct a response. The main reason I don’t answer the phone after 5 from anyone related to work is they almost undoubtably want me to do something.

I find it very hard to say no, so on phone calls I used to find myself getting into things I don’t want to do just because I don’t want to be rude.

By text at least I get a chance to ask the boss / think of a nice way of saying no. 

If you have a boss, it should be his phone their ringing not yours ? 

One thing I never gave out when employed was my phone number. Never, to ANYONE, for ANY reason. ????

Edited February 3, 2018 by Nickfromwales

[Construction Channel]

9 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

If you have a boss, it should be his phone their ringing not yours ? 

One thing I never have put when employed was my phone number. Never, to ANYONE, for ANY reason. ????

Lol I meant Faye. First thing I do on a job is find the customers number and block it. ?

[ToughButterCup]

40 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

I feel a Lawry Taylor moment coming on...

[...]

In his article on professoonal codes of practice and ethical conduct of 1994 Angus Dawson set out a cognatavist theory endevouring to show how codes and professionalsm can be mixed up. 

 

Reference?

ANGUS JAMES DAWSON (1994) Professional Codes of Practice and Ethical Conduct

[MikeSharp01]

This is it I think.

[ToughButterCup]

I'm the first to admit to colleagues like @SteamyTea, @Construction Channel, and @Nickfromwales, that customers can and do behave badly.

They do so in all sectors of commerce, not just building work.

 

The point I want to make is that trades folk are just as elitist as the so-called 'elites' we associate with the Rollo's of this world in so far as they can make themselves unreachable by their customers.

 

Want your loo unblocking on a Sunday afternoon? Want your property securing when there's been storm damage? Don't pi$$ a trades person off. 

[MikeSharp01]

4 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

so far as they can make themselves unreachable by their

Yes and I guess we both know plenty of academics with the same mindset. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by MikeSharp01

[SteamyTea]

31 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

academics with the same mindset. 

Yes, I had a two supervisors that were hopeless.

One even claimed to have left messages on both my landline and my mobile.  Neither of which had an answer service.

[ToughButterCup]

21 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Yes, I had a two supervisors that were hopeless.

[...]

 

First rule of doctoral-level study: Learn how to supervise your supervisor. They don't need a doctorate, you do.

[SteamyTea]

Yes, I was doing that quite well until the original one left for another institution.

[Roger440]

8 hours ago, Redoctober said:

 

Very true. In complete agreement. Hopefully once in the area and on site things will ease for me and the need for 4 phones won't be necessary !!

PW.

 

Given your proximity to me, you will need more than 4 phones. If you find anyone who turns up and does a half decent job, let me know!!!

[Jeremy Harris]

3 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

First rule of doctoral-level study: Learn how to supervise your supervisor. They don't need a doctorate, you do.

 

I had a supervisor send me a copy of a PhD thesis to review, as he couldn't get his head around it.  Interesting, as it was on an aerodynamic subject, the supervisor was someone I had a pretty high regard for, plus it was in his area of expertise, not really mine.  I couldn't get my head around it either, and ended up going down to se him at Southampton and talk it through with him.  With both our heads trying to get to grips with it we discovered a fundamental flaw in the original premise.  Not easy to spot, and it was a job made much more difficult by the style of writing.

 

By pure chance I met the chap who wrote the thesis a few years later (it took him 11 years to get his PhD) and he was possibly the most irritating and pedantic individual I've ever met.  I came to the conclusion that he was a sociopath, and that he probably had some form of undiagnosed personality disorder.

[Brickie]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

I came to the conclusion that he was a sociopath, and that he probably had some form of undiagnosed personality disorder.

Sounds like he should have been an architect :))

 

[Construction Channel]

I think the issue is in the building world most of the time the customer won’t see the work completed until they get home from work. At which point they think it’s a good idea to call the person running the job and discuss things (I used to run jobs but not any more for this exact reason.) I used to get calls at ridiculous times. They generally don’t understand that we have lives too and finish work at 5 like everyone else. 

By all means send me a text and I probably will reply that evening but I will do it when I’m not eating dinner/ watching a good bit/ having a bunk up,....... or call me within the hours you are paying me for. 

The other difference would be that “usually” white collar workers have got a secretary/PA to fob people off until they are ready. We don’t. We just have a misses that moans at us for never stopping work when we do rarely answer the phone out of hours. 

[Nickfromwales]

10 minutes ago, Construction Channel said:

I think the issue is in the building world most of the time the customer won’t see the work completed until they get home from work. At which point they think it’s a good idea to call the person running the job and discuss things (I used to run jobs but not any more for this exact reason.) I used to get calls at ridiculous times. They generally don’t understand that we have lives too and finish work at 5 like everyone else. 

By all means send me a text and I probably will reply that evening but I will do it when I’m not eating dinner/ watching a good bit/ having a bunk up,....... or call me within the hours you are paying me for. 

The other difference would be that “usually” white collar workers have got a secretary/PA to fob people off until they are ready. We don’t. We just have a misses that moans at us for never stopping work when we do rarely answer the phone out of hours. 

Yup. 

A guy I recently worked alongside said he had adopted a new business model, to deal with such situations. He said he simply picked up the phone and answered the client, out of his 'paid hours' and immediately informed them that answering the phone and discussing the job with them would be chargeable at £X per hour with no part hour billing. Some chose to accept it, and some choked on their asparagus tips. Either way, he said it made his phone either quiet or very profitable. Makes perfect business sense when you look at it, from either perspective. If a client chooses to ring out of hours then they pay the fee. Simples. 

[Jeremy Harris]

12 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Yup. 

A guy I recently worked alongside said he had adopted a new business model, to deal with such situations. He said he simply picked up the phone and answered the client, out of his 'paid hours' and immediately informed them that answering the phone and discussing the job with them would be chargeable at £X per hour with no part hour billing. Some chose to accept it, and some choked on their asparagus tips. Either way, he said it made his phone either quiet or very profitable. Makes perfect business sense when you look at it, from either perspective. If a client chooses to ring out of hours then they pay the fee. Simples. 

 

I charge by the hour for consultancy work.  The fees are laid out in my standard Ts and Cs and form a part of the contract.  I bill in 15 min increments, and answering phone calls and emails are specifically listed as billable work.   I've never yet had a problem with an invoice being questioned, and I do itemise the sub-totals of all work done, by type.

[Nickfromwales]

5 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

I charge by the hour for consultancy work.  The fees are laid out in my standard Ts and Cs and form a part of the contract.  I bill in 15 min increments, and answering phone calls and emails are specifically listed as billable work.   I've never yet had a problem with an invoice being questioned, and I do itemise the sub-totals of all work done, by type.

An industry standard which makes a lot of sense, I now see. As Ed says, its a fine line where common courtesy strays into giving up your own free / family time for zero reward, and usually through no fault or reason of your own, and where you draw a line and say "this is now work". Makes me shudder when I think how much of my time has been 'lost' to this in the past