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Should I make building control and for what application?


legepe

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Hi all,
Ive completely ripped up all the wooden floor in an old terraced house which was badly affected with dry rot, and would like to replace it with a concrete floor.

The house is in a real sorry state in general.. brickwork with cracks above window sorting out, lintel installed, some of the walls need to be taken back to brick before boarding/replastering, some of the plaster has just fallen off. tree growing through wall into ceiling void, exterior wall at back of house out of plumb around 2.5" requiring floor joists to be extended to support upper floor properly... etc, etc... ive attached some of pics to show general condition.

If I make an application to building control for the concrete floor installation.. will they then give me a problem and ask me why I have not made full application for the rest of the works that need to be done.. and will they insist I do all the other things in the house to current building regs... ie insulate all exterior walls either inside or out? etc... or because this in only a renovation and not a new build Im i worrying too much..!?

Any advice very welcome
Thanks
lepend

 

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Hi, and welcome to Buildhub. 

Ok, that's a chunk of work that needs doing there. :S  You'll definitely need a building control application, a domestic one, and a quick call to your local council will give you the fees. That'll give you the specifications you need to be working To for the floor insulation, lintels etc and also if your doing electrical work that'll need an relevant certificate too. 

Is this a renovation or a house for yourself to live in for a while?

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11 minutes ago, Oz07 said:

Just do the floor to the current specs, photos throughout jobs a goodun. I'd perhaps start involving them when altering structural bits. Not much to go wrong with a floor if your confident in your abilities. 

That's all well until BCO turns up and says "prove to me you put the right insulation under the floor please and that there's a DPM properly installed" ;)  Pissing the BCO off by starting work without him isn't a good way to start that relationship. Also it may well be to your advantage as you can ask as many questions as you like about how to do various tasks and they'll help you along your way, if your not fully up to speed with current regs / methods / products etc. 

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Thanks guys... The house is for a rental.. I just feel that if I was to make a full application for all works that need to be done... then cost/budget wise its going to kill me..! Its not that I am going to be cutting corners so to speak with the works that need doing.. but I dont want to be forced to insulate walls n things like that.. N i understand that if i make a full application then Im charged a percentage of what the total costs will be... Ill call regs and explain a bit more and see what they say..?

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9 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

That's all well until BCO turns up and says "prove to me you put the right insulation under the floor please and that there's a DPM properly installed" ;)  Pissing the BCO off by starting work without him isn't a good way to start that relationship. Also it may well be to your advantage as you can ask as many questions as you like about how to do various tasks and they'll help you along your way, if your not fully up to speed with current regs / methods / products etc. 

Good advise

the earlier that you get them in The less issues you will have

BC will just have quick look round and a chat 

Then it will be a case of getting an inspection prior to plasterboarding

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3 minutes ago, legepe said:

Thanks guys... The house is for a rental.. I just feel that if I was to make a full application for all works that need to be done... then cost/budget wise its going to kill me..! Its not that I am going to be cutting corners so to speak with the works that need doing.. but I dont want to be forced to insulate walls n things like that.. N i understand that if i make a full application then Im charged a percentage of what the total costs will be... Ill call regs and explain a bit more and see what they say..?

I doubt you've got much choice if it's a rental tbh. If anything goes wrong and it injures a 3rd party ( Tennant ) then you need to show youve followed the rules and have used due diligence. 

The work is by no means rocket science, it's a relatively cheap project, and you may well need it for building insurance etc. Don't forget anything you dodge around could come back to bite you on the arse. Building control won't add a fortune to the job but will give you a paper trail if you need to value it or resell sooner than you may have wanted to. 

Also remember that failure to inform and apply for building control is a jailable offence iirc. 

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Before you skip on the insulation see...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/landlord-guide/are-you-an-energy-efficient-landlord/

 

More than 400,000 properties in England and Wales could be unlettable because they fail to meet new energy performance standards. Landlords must act now, estate agents warn.

 

From 1 April 2018, privately rented properties must meet new energy efficiency standards or landlords cannot rent them out to new tenants or relet to existing ones.

 

It will need to achieve EPC grade E which might not be difficult but..

 

“Landlords who do not have a valid EPC could also face a fine of £200 and

may also be unable to serve a Section 21 notice to gain possession at the end of the tenancy,” says Mr Leaf.  

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25 minutes ago, legepe said:

Thanks guys... The house is for a rental.. I just feel that if I was to make a full application for all works that need to be done... then cost/budget wise its going to kill me..! Its not that I am going to be cutting corners so to speak with the works that need doing.. but I dont want to be forced to insulate walls n things like that.. N i understand that if i make a full application then Im charged a percentage of what the total costs will be... Ill call regs and explain a bit more and see what they say..?

@Ferdinand will be able to help as the EPC rating of a rental will need to meet as those regulations tighten. Wall insulation may be required in the future anyway.

 

@Temp beat me to it. Worth considering the future impacts before rushing into hasty decisions now that require (expensive) re-work later

Edited by daiking
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11 minutes ago, legepe said:

I know it all makes sense what you have already advised on... Still waiting on call back from bso.. Ill let you know what he says...

Ok, we'll stop beating you up now :D

For some other info, don't go filling that floor up with heavy and costly to handle hardcore. Instead buy as much damaged eps ( jablite ) as you can and make the floor up with that, stopping 150mm shy of the required finished slab level. Then go for concrete with steel reinforcing mesh and it'll be job done. You could even have Ufh at that stage but rads are so much easier and more widely expected in such a property. 

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2 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Ok, we'll stop beating you up now :D

For some other info, don't go filling that floor up with heavy and costly to handle hardcore. Instead buy as much damaged eps ( jablite ) as you can and make the floor up with that, stopping 150mm shy of the required finished slab level. Then go for concrete with steel reinforcing mesh and it'll be job done. You could even have Ufh at that stage but rads are so much easier and more widely expected in such a property. 

wow... reinforced concrete.. is that not a little ott.. I was contemplating not even putting concrete if I could get away with it.. I was informed that 50cm of hardcore properly compacted would never move..

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34 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

 

Also remember that failure to inform and apply for building control is a jailable offence iirc. 

 

You don't recall correctly.

 

There are various actions that a LA may take in a breach of Building regs, jailing someone is not one of them.

 

  • The local authority may take enforcement action under Section 36 of the Building Act 1984, which is the most common action taken. Building Control may serve a "section 36 notice" requiring rectification of works which do not comply with building regulations within 28 days. If the building owner does not comply, Building Control can carry out the works themselves and recover the cost from the owner of the property. The section 36 notice must be served within 12 months of the breach.
  • In addition, or instead of serving a section 36 notice, Building Control can also apply for an injunction to require work to cease or to compel the building owner to undertake specified works to rectify a breach. Because the costs associated with the application process are so high, injunctions tend to be reserved only for the most serious or extreme breaches, for example where a building is dangerous to occupants or neighbours. An injunction can be sought at any time after the carrying out of the works if they are deemed to be dangerous.

 

A minor breach is highly unlikely to result in action by the LA, it's to expensive and time consuming to be worth pursuing.

 

Which is not to recommend proceeding with substantial works without getting the right bits of bureaucratic paperwork. Not having it is likely to lead to further bureaucratic problems in the future, for instance, when you try to sell the property.

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12 minutes ago, legepe said:

wow... reinforced concrete.. is that not a little ott.. I was contemplating not even putting concrete if I could get away with it.. I was informed that 50cm of hardcore properly compacted would never move..

It also wouldn't insulate anywhere near as well :) How much would it cost to get that lot bought, delivered, manhandled into place and compacted ( in layers ) then topped with screed ? Add all that up and have a chew over the numbers. ;)

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4 minutes ago, billt said:

You don't recall correctly.

 

There are various actions that a LA may take in a breach of Building regs, jailing someone is not one of them.

Two heads are better than one. I just thought I recalled that from a conversation with a builder when discussing a building not far from my house where the centre section of an entire 2-storey gable end dropped about 600mm due to the cowboy builders not supporting the knock through to a conservatory in accordance. Wish I took a photo tbh as the 2g upvc Windows had twisted in the openings and looked like they were holding the wall from dropping down altogether. I would not like to have been that guy when the phone rang. :/ 

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Thanks for all the info guys... very much appreciated.. however, we're starting to detract from my original concern... I need to know based on the overall condition of the property whether to 1. make application for building control, or go it alone?

2. make application for the floor only.. all other work - classed as renovation and not requiring a BSO

3. make full application

Because of personal financial constraints I would probably like to go with #2 but, im unsure that if I do, there wont be problems when the BSO visits and sees the condition of the rest of property

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Meanwhile in the real world he's banged 100m stone in, 2 layers, 100mm pir in, dpm above and below 100mm concrete in maybe even self compacting for ease of use and flow and job done. Loads better than what was there before from thermal and durability point of view. Happens up and down the country all day every day. 

 

Like i I say not advocating any bodges, work has to be up to scratch but next thing u know he will be having soil survey, enviromental searches, radon barriers. Just get it done and do it right - too much bureaucracy 

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6 minutes ago, Oz07 said:

Meanwhile in the real world he's banged 100m stone in, 2 layers, 100mm pir in, dpm above and below 100mm concrete in maybe even self compacting for ease of use and flow and job done. Loads better than what was there before from thermal and durability point of view. Happens up and down the country all day every day. 

 

Like i I say not advocating any bodges, work has to be up to scratch but next thing u know he will be having soil survey, enviromental searches, radon barriers. Just get it done and do it right - too much bureaucracy 

Thanks.. I ant gonna be bodging anything here.. its not in my interests and i will do the things right.. Im just nervous of having any comeback if I go it alone.. especially with floor.. but on the other side i don't want to be dictated to on every single aspect... I cannot afford it..

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I really wish I had the experience to give me the confidence to just get on with this and do it alone... I understand that things have become far to bureaucratic...! and I hate it.. however, I dont have the required experience to sleep easy.. so ive just parted with £324 for an BSO to come hopefully tmrw... I just hope that its value for money with the work I need to complete this project...

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I thought it was 170 but they said I was probably mixing that with a planning application... They told me this application is for internal & external.. every days a school day for me... :(

The cost 324 is based on estimated cost to complete work... between 5001 and 25000... they wanted to charge me more because I said the windows needed changing...! but i said the company I will use will be fensa registered...

I accept and understand there needs to be standards... but I get the feeling with all the bureaucracy, theyre simply inventing ways to take more money...

Edited by legepe
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If you just "repair" the floor to back to how it used to be, will anyone know?

 

Much as it might be notifiable, if what goes back in is the same as original who can know? Thats just "maintenance in my world.

 

But, dont forget, EPC E from this May, and C from 2025 for a rental. So doing the above may just stitch yourself up.

 

If you go BCO, get a private one. More likely to be useful. There are 2 ways to interpret rules. 1) the "council" way, ie find a way to trip you up, stop you doing it etc. 2) Pragmatic solution that complies and gets the job done.

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Just now, Nickfromwales said:

That looks like it needs a bit more than just repairing to me :/

 

 

Just an "extensive" repair! But ts still a repair if it goes back the same.

 

Otherwise, where does it stop? If you had one rotton joist to do, still notifiable?

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