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I knew a chap who used to write down his todo list in the last reserved 20 minutes at work, then deliberately leave it on his desk so it would not follow him home, ready to be picked up the next morning.

 

He also used to have a crisis scheduled for a half day each week, then he would switch the schedule for whenever the crisis actually occurred into the next scheduled crisis period, and switch the crisis into when it had happened.

 

Clever planning.

 

Ferdinand

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Just one thing to add about audio books and radio through the BBC radio player - most of them have a sleep timer facility so you don't need to worry about switching them off. I use it must evenings.

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Been there most of last couple of years waking 3am with worries/thoughts/Todo list addendums. They subsided once build nearing completion.

 

Trouble is now starting next one, barn to holiday cottage, they are starting again.  Two nights ago woken by thought 'sh*t the sewage treatment plant can't go in the planned position as in way for further future build'. 

 

I find taking the covers off to get my body cold before putting them back on again and snuggling down again helps me get back to sleep

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I forgot to mention a couple of other things that I do. Most of my efforts are in response to finding myself increasingly waking up at 3 or 4 in the morning, then having trouble getting to sleep for 30-60 mins. Apparently this is common as one gets older.

 

I take a magnesium, zinc and B6 supplement shortly before bedtime. There's some research on this combination. Even if it's the placebo effect, I don't care, as it seems to work for me.

 

Dr Michael Mosely did an interesting show on the beeb about sleep a while ago. One of the things he personally found worked (anecdotal, not data) was inulin, which is a prebiotic extracted from Jerusalem artichokes. I've been taking a couple of spoons of that in caffeine-free tea (redbush usually) most nights, and it does seem to help me not wake up in the early hours. I got mine from myprotein or bulk powders - it isn't expensive. Careful with this - some people find it initially causes prodigious flatulence!


I always sleep better if I've done some exercise in the afternoon/evening. I know some people have trouble going to sleep after exercise, but even when I do high intensity interval training at 7 or 8 at night, I'm fine going to sleep before 11.

 

Finally, darkness definitely helps. Even a bright alarm clock display (especially if not red) can be enough to disrupt my sleep.

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A dish heavy with lentils for dinner. The green ones work best for me.

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Nobody's mentioned "letting your other half tell you about their day"!

 

Works everytime for me except as I'm drifting off she'll remember something else...

 

:ph34r:

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Exercise is the key .

Also a good diet of meat and smoothies !

Veg if you are that way inclined .

Also to never be bored . Read ( I prefer technical stuff rather than books ) ; play console games ( if that way inclined ) . Cook - great fun and amazing food .

Make sugars ( chocolate) and alcohol ‘treats’ say just on the weekend and in moderation. Exercise can be anything or any sport - just do what you like ! 

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My 'get to sleep / get back to sleep' technique is to visualise, in great detail, a job that I've done, like assemble an idea wardrobe or installing a bit of kit. Sometimes I recall a specific drive or walk  - does not matter. What's key is to concentrate on this thing in only and hopefully drown out anything else (i.e. whatever thought is keeping you awake). Usually works after 5 mins...

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On 12 January 2018 at 09:54, JSHarris said:

I'm with @jack on this.

 

I now avoid caffeine and if I'm going to have a glass of wine I'll have it early in the evening, not after about 07:30.    Simple meditation preparation techniques, like the pre-meditation clearing of the mind, controlling your breathing and inducing muscle relaxation from the tips of your fingers and toes to the centre of your body works well for me.  It's something I only remembered a few years ago, that I first learned at uni during transcendental meditation sessions with a local yogi (remember this was the late 60's/early 70's, when many of us were all hippies at heart............).

 

 

This caffeine thing puzzles me. I could drink a couple of espresso's and go straight to bed and sleep like a log. The only thing that would wake me in the early hours is my bladder needing emptying.

 

SWMBO on the other hand is the opposite. We normally have a coffee after our evening meal, always decaf.  As an "experiment" (because I just didn't believe this caffeine stuff) one night I made it with normal caffeinated coffee.  In the morning she was in a foul mood as she just could not sleep, and wondered why........    I fessed up later.

 

Why does caffeine affect some so badly and others not at all?

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He has to catch them first...

 

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1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

Presumably the Welsh Plumber counts sheep.

 

He has to catch them first...

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2 hours ago, ProDave said:

This caffeine thing puzzles me. I could drink a couple of espresso's and go straight to bed and sleep like a log. The only thing that would wake me in the early hours is my bladder needing emptying.

 

SWMBO on the other hand is the opposite. We normally have a coffee after our evening meal, always decaf.  As an "experiment" (because I just didn't believe this caffeine stuff) one night I made it with normal caffeinated coffee.  In the morning she was in a foul mood as she just could not sleep, and wondered why........    I fessed up later.

 

Why does caffeine affect some so badly and others not at all?

 

 

I've found that it's changed as I've aged, too.  My wife had always had a problem with any drink containing caffeine, like your's, she has disturbed sleep if she drinks anything with caffeine in for a few hours before bedtime.

 

I used to drink coffee, and more recently a lot of tea (almost as bad in terms of caffeine intake, I believe) but now find I can't.  Gone are the days when I'd eat late and have a cup of coffee, as if I do I'll be awake half the night.

 

I'm finding that other things are changing as I age, too.  I now have a lot poorer tolerance for ibuprofen.  In the past I've used it pretty much like a lot of people, to relieve the symptoms of pain, inflammation etc.  Now I find I feel generally unwell after a couple of doses, and seriously unwell if I take 4 doses in one day.  For aches and pains (almost always self-inflicted) I switched to rubbing on diclofenac (Voltaral), which seems to work well, yet being externally applied doesn't cause any upsets.

 

If you want a really scary story, one that only really scared me after the event when I found out what happened, shortly before Christmas I had the combination of a bad sore throat plus my right shoulder playing up again (this is the one I've so far had three cortisone injections in).  So, I took the maximum dose of ibuprofen for three days (1600mg/day, in four, 400mg, doses per day).  That should be safe enough, and generally ibuprofen is safer than a lot of other pain/anti-inflammatory medications.  I woke up on the Monday morning of the fourth day feeling bit rough, and for some reason decided to lay off the ibuprofen.  What I failed to notice was that I didn't have a pee that morning.  I did notice that I had lower back pain though. 

 

Through the day the lower back pain got intolerable, so much so that when I drove home I wasn't really in a fit state to drive, and could barely make it out of the car and into the house.  My wife (a nurse) reckoned I looked seriously ill, and wanted to take me to A&E, but I refused, on the basis that they would be rushed off their feet.  That evening I drank lots of orange juice and water, but then realised that I'd not had a pee all day.  Wife does all the usual checks, determines that I'm not in urinary retention, but I reluctantly decide to make an urgent appointment with my GP the next morning.  Around 10pm, I suddenly decide I need to pee, and what came out was like frothy milk, really bizarre.  I was up half the night just peeing, each time it got a bit more normal.  By the next morning when I saw the GP things seemed normal, but then later, when some blood test results came back, they showed that I'd suffered complete kidney failure for maybe 24 hours, which by pure luck, it seems, has fixed itself (although the GP is being paranoid and doing regular checks).

 

The most probable conclusion the GP and I have reached is that somehow taking ibuprofen for three days, non-stop, triggered the kidney failure.  There's no indication I had any infection, something just made both kidney's switch off for a day, and it coincides with the ibuprofen use, which was a lot higher than normal. 

 

So, it seems that for some reason I've now developed an intolerance to ibuprofen, which is a nuisance, as it's reasonably effective when my shoulder plays up.  My GP has prescribed me pretty much as much codeine as I want as a stop gap (not too sure about that, but it does reduce the pain a bit).  I'm now on the verge of going to see the private surgeon who sorted out my left shoulder a few years ago, as if the NHS won't fund the surgery to fix my right shoulder now (they did fund the surgery on the left one, but policy has now changed) I'll have to fund it myself.  My goal is to be free from taking medication of any sort unless I absolutely have to, as I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the less medication we can get by on the better.

 

Edited by JSHarris

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9 hours ago, ProDave said:

Why does caffeine affect some so badly and others not at all?

 

There's a genetic element to caffeine sensitivity.

 

My wife could drink a double espresso an hour before bed and still go out like a light.

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I do like an Ibuprofen! The ONLY ones that work for me are the red gel liquid capsules. Wilkinsons I find best. Boots next. The "Plus" ones do nothing. I used to live on them when I was seriously overweight and had high BP.  

 

Coffee...the wife banned me from drinking it years ago. Reckons it makes me aggressive! 

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4 hours ago, jack said:

 

There's a genetic element to caffeine sensitivity.

 

My wife could drink a double espresso an hour before bed and still go out like a light.

The OH is like that - he can have as much caffeine as he likes and has no effect - if I have as much as a bottle of coke in the afternoon, I cannot get to sleep for hours! 

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Its not so much going to sleep, its getting back to sleep if you wake up in the night.  I have problems if I'm worrying about all the jobs I've got to do.

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12 hours ago, CC45 said:

Its not so much going to sleep, its getting back to sleep if you wake up in the night.  I have problems if I'm worrying about all the jobs I've got to do.

Murder the wife ; you’ll sleep better then 😁

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6 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

But @pocster, think of the paperwork......

Hmmmmmm , this is true .

ill rethink my plan to eliminate the paperwork.....

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Is that because in jail I wont have to think about the selfbuild for 25 years?

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I thought I was sleeping badly, then got a cheap fitness tracker (12 quid) that monitors sleep.

Over the last month my average deep sleep is 2h 51m, light sleep is 4h 52m, total sleep time is 7h 44 a night.

When I was away in Oct/Nov, that improved slightly to 3h 06m deep sleep, 5h 22m light sleep and a total of 8h 29m a night.

 

I am naturally an early rise, I enjoy the Shipping Forecast (5:20AM), though I do miss Charlotte Green reading it, so tend to aim to be in bed by 10PM.

 

I work evenings and find that helps.  There is a definite end of the day when you work evenings (we close the shop and spend an hour cleaning up).  That certainly helped when I was studying at university during the day, but how I miss having weekends and evenings free, but can get a lot of reading done during the day.

I often drink a can of Tesco Blue Sparkle (a cheap Red Bull) at work, does not seem to affect my sleep, but makes me feel better at work, and I don't get home feeling so tired that even a shower and a cuppa is out of the question.

 

When I was a student in my early 20's, I had a flat mate that had undiagnosed mental health issues.  I found out that to keep him calm and to stop him drinking (there was no self mediation term in those days) if we walked to the sea (Surrey Road, via the park, to the pier, for those that know Bournemouth) I slept better.  I assume he did too (can't ask him as he jumped of Old Harry's Rock a while back).

 

I usually listen to radio at night, or catch up/re-listen on the iPlayer (Simon Evans is back on tonight, and John Finnemore is on Thursday evening).

 

So what works for me is regular times, radio and 'exercise'.  I also sleep alone and 'starfish' the bed a fair bit. Just for a laugh, I have sleep apnea, but save that up to scare the hell out of my partner.  Stops them sleeping as they think I have died!  Serves them right for stealing most of the bed.

 

So why do I feel more tired when I get up than when I go to bed.  I 'plod' for a couple of hours in the mornings.

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20 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Just for a laugh, I have sleep apnea,

There is your reason, I suspect.  Your sleep tracker is based on movement.  Your momentary wakefulness ppssibly doesn't register but is enough to prevent you getting full benefit from your sleep

 

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I put it down to getting up early and then doing nothing much until it is time to go out for a coffee (about now).  I treat mornings like most people treat evenings, time to relax.

I was given a gimp mask to wear at night.  All that did was stop me breathing and sleeping.  Total waste of time and I am not that bad with it (nor am I a typical case i.e. overweight and unhealthy, idle and moaning).

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