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Adding in a toilet to a run - plumbing query


CC45

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Evening all.

 

Doing some 1st fit plumbing at the minute and the current task is to add a toilet to a run of soil pipe in the first floor joists.  The pipe falls right to left, with a shower and basin on the right and the plan is to add the toilet between theses and where the pipe then goes dow into the ground floor on the left.  I am now concerned that the jobbies may linger at the new joint and eventually cause problems....  Is this a fair concern?  I have a feeling that the jobbies ought to be going in the general direction before they join the pipe - just to make sure they keep going in the right direction.  I worry about things like this.  Fall is 1:40.

 

Any observations / help gratefully received.

 

Thanks

 

CC

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You may need to look at the other connections as well,

how do the shower and basin join this run? 

Adding jobbies into the mix may mean you need to join the shower and toilet in a different configuration as you don't want jobbies flowing back up and coming out of your shower. 

I have seen this happen not nice. 

???????

 

got a pic. 

Edited by Russell griffiths
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Simple TBH. If there is no need for 110mm pipe to be passing the toilet then cut the soil pipe where the wc is to connect and use a soil bend and go straight up into the pan connector.

Use a Boss socket to join the bend and the soil together and then use the bosses to reconnect the sink and shower.  ?

As the soil is below the floor, there's nothing stopping you teeing the sink and shower into one 40mm run and use a single boss ( one will be 'open' and the other two should be 'blind' ) so no need to drill the second boss eye out ;)

For belt and braces change the basin trap to an anti-vacuum / air admittance type like this to give some sort of air break. Ideally the bosses should be direct to the stack if its falling vertically ( to mitigate against any vacuum issues created when the slug of flushing water drops down to ground fooor ) as you don't say if there's is an existing 110mm air admittance 'Durgo' valve on the end of this run or not.

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Had a plumber on site today......  What I've done & he seemed happy with it, is to put a branch fitting in - 110mm then goes to the toilet and then the plan is to continue straight on using 40mm pipe - fitting going into the 110mm pipe.  I will take a pic tomorrow.  I could do what Nick suggests - are those short bosses glued onto the black 110mm?  Pictures tomorrow will help you all see what I'm up to and clarify the position.

 

CC

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Right took camera with me today - first pic:

IMG_2568.thumb.JPG.cfbaefd67c679d9a09a39044db7727ce.JPG

The plan was to continue the run on the right in 110 but I'm now planning to put one of these in http://www.drainageshop.co.uk/110mm-pushfit-soil/DSPS423BL.html?kw=pla-119378095923+c&fl=1000&ci=71690518323&network=pla&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg83c8fjc1wIVaLvtCh03OgesEAQYBCABEgLLQfD_BwE  the 40mm pipe then continues onto a basin and shower.  I could replace the branch with a bend & put a 40mm boss into the straight run (I would need to change the pipe to black - I don't think the brown takes glue very well.)  This will all be covered so I'm not worried about not using black fittings (just using up some of my existing spares).  The rising soil pipe continues above and ends in an AAV.

 

The second pic is another run.  It falls left to right.  Far left is the AAV, next the toilet & then the basin.  Plumber was happy with this.  The plan is to use 40mm bosses to connect the shower & bath to this run.

IMG_2571.thumb.JPG.5989e282d101f920b4dfa776a0b699e7.JPG

 

I'd welcome any comments.

 

Not much to show for a weekends work really (I did spend a few hours sorting stuff out for the plumber - who was starting the tank (bought with the Build hub bulk order) / boiler install).  He'd not heard of a Hotun - which I want to use - I will ring them tomorrow to check its certification but when I looked on their web site it did seem to suggest they can be used.

 

Loading pics was easier than I thought......

Edited by CC45
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@CC45 the Hotun has all its certs for a G3 install but remember if you have more than one PRV into it you have to run 22mm min depending on length. 

 

If you go to plastic 32mm it has to be Polypropylene (look for PP marking) and not ABS solvent weld. 

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1 hour ago, CC45 said:

I'd welcome any comments.

That run with the brown branch id have done differently tbh. The far left where the AAV is should be held up tight to the floor with all round patent band and the far right packed down as low as it could go before passing the bottom of the joist. If there was a reason for not being able to get more of a fall, I'd have out a Y branch for the WC, rectified to vertical with a single socket 45o bend, so things are already heading in the right direction. 

A regular branch isn't meant to be on a horizontal run, particularly when taking a WC and more so when in a near flat fall. Solids will be going left and right with that arrangement, and as you don't have any water coming down past it, just the AAV, I'd do it differently. 

Also, I'd be suprised if the BCO doesn't pull you over using UG fittings above ground. I've done it in the past, but made sure they were hidden or covered up before any inspections :ph34r:

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3 hours ago, CC45 said:

I don't think the brown takes glue very well

The "brown" is UG ( underground ) stuff, so if you want to glue it you'll need to scratch it thoroughly with coarse sandpaper and clean with pipe cleaner. Then use solvent cement which comes in a metal toothpaste tube, commonly referred to as gap filler which is the bigger brother of the normal waste pipe solvent weld. 

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Thanks Nick for comments, I will ring BC tomorrow and ask regarding the UG fittings, if he's not happy I will change them to the black ones.  Got another idea regarding the set up.  If I put a y branch horizontally after the basin branch, the straight on section will go to the wc via a 90 bend so solids will just continue straight on, the 45deg off the y branch will continue past the wc (so two parallel pipes for a bit) and the go up to the aav.  This should be a lot better I think.  What do you think?

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14 hours ago, CC45 said:

Thanks Nick for comments, I will ring BC tomorrow and ask regarding the UG fittings, if he's not happy I will change them to the black ones.  Got another idea regarding the set up.  If I put a y branch horizontally after the basin branch, the straight on section will go to the wc via a 90 bend so solids will just continue straight on, the 45deg off the y branch will continue past the wc (so two parallel pipes for a bit) and the go up to the aav.  This should be a lot better I think.  What do you think?

Yes to the y branch as that's what I would have done TBH. 

Youll prob have to order one as not many merchants / sheds stock them. 

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update.

 

Rang BC today - they are happy with the ug soil pipe above ground as long as its in darkness.  Good news.

 

So after a trip to a BM this is what I did tonight.

 View from below.  Falls from left to right.  Solids should scoot past the y branch.......

IMG_2575.thumb.JPG.a4a0ce384a424088af99dda0ad82e375.JPG

Need to drill & install a 40mm boss for the shower & bath.

 

Also tweaked the other soil run:-

 

IMG_2576.thumb.JPG.ba6288b321f512a1df214568695aafca.JPG

 

Solids should run along this with no issues - and I will pop a boss in for the shower & basin.

 

Time to move on with other jobs now.

 

CC

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Bathroom (picture 1) - I could but I'd have to put a branch back in there somewhere (I can't seem to find a 50mm boss adaptor except those that go into 110mm) - do I need to?  The max run will be 2500mm & at 1:40 I'd need 62.5mm of fall (2.5") - I've got that within the floor void (and more) and I could run 40mm directly to the shower and another directly to the bath if necessary (can't see both discharging at the same time though).

 

Ensuite (picture 2) - the max run here is < 1500mm so I'd need 1.5" fall at 1:40 - got that as well.  Not so easy to put a branch in here for a 110 - 50mm socket - unless I replace the bend at the floor joist with a branch & then put the adaptor in there (just worried that jobbies may be tempted to 'rest' there).

 

I could put a 40mm y branch in & then run 2 x 40mm pipes but I'm not too sure its necessary but happy to accept your far greater experience Nick.

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If I've read correctly then your thinking about the shower and bath going into one 40mm connection ? That's not a good idea ( if so ). Shower on its own 40 and bath on its own 40, and then tee the basin into the bath. Then put an anti syphon trap onto the basin to allow some air admittance for the when the full bath is emptying. Shower doesn't need one. 

I do go OTT with the wastes under the boards TBH, but I haven't lost a patient yet. The difference is I'm installing for customers so I always go belt n 2 braces as my ethos is "why buy a 40mm pipe when I can spend a tiny bit more on 50mm ". ;)

If the ? is heading in the right direction then it'll be staying nowhere after the first few bends / junctions I ass-sure you. 

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For the bathroom I can plumb the shower and bath on individual 40mm runs and the sink goes into a branch. Aav on sink  was always the plan.   Plenty of fall for the 40mm runs is available.

 

Ensuite - only a shower in there.  I was going to tee the basin and shower into one 40mm pipe.  Aav  on sink again.

 

I think it will be fine.

 

Thanks for advice Nick.

 

Hwyl

 

Cc

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40 minutes ago, CC45 said:

For the bathroom I can plumb the shower and bath on individual 40mm runs and the sink goes into a branch. Aav on sink  was always the plan.   Plenty of fall for the 40mm runs is available.

 

Ensuite - only a shower in there.  I was going to tee the basin and shower into one 40mm pipe.  Aav  on sink again.

 

I think it will be fine.

 

Thanks for advice Nick.

 

Hwyl

 

Cc

Tres bien Rodney ??

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