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Help me identify this, please


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Hoostun, we have a prablerm.

 

I'll save you the sob story.I need to know what this stuff is.

Our local BMW are experts at making me feel like an idiot when I go in and ask for stuff I've never used before.

 

So could you please tell me what this stuff is, please.....

plumbing.thumb.jpg.e95edfba5b3e00377d1d6bdb14e6d8f4.jpg

 

It's  a loop containing 3 radiators in  our central heating system

And I think this valve is leaking... What do you think?

 

valve.thumb.jpg.d1a8e52ed371f1bd1b546d2aee99c0f1.jpg

 

Any guidance would be most welcome.

Ian

 

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Which “stuff” do you want identifying ..?? The grey fittings look like PlumbSure or similar - usually from the likes of B&Q. 

 

That rad valve looks to have a weep from the spindle but nothing serious unless there is a pool of water I can’t see..?

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Whatever it is it can connect to or be replaced by any of the standard push fittings HEP20 or John Guest for instance. You just need the diameter of the pipe to get the right bits. Looks like the grey stuff and the copper is 22mm while the white stuff (looks remarkably like John Guest pipe) is 15mm and the ends of the white pipe go into reducers which provide 22mm male to 15mm female connections.

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What do I want to know?

 

The trade names of the plastic piping: both the  white stuff and grey stuff.

If you look at the top right of the top right photo, the plastic stuff re-connects to copper piping - but if you look at the radiator that that loop serves, the piping is plastic where it goes into the valve.

 

So  for one or two of our radiators on the feed side, the water travels through copper, then plastic, then copper then plastic piping . On the way back it's just plastic. I think our system must have been built by a cobbler, not a plumber.

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3 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Whatever it is it can connect to or be replaced by any of the standard push fittings HEP20 or John Guest for instance. You just need the diameter of the pipe to get the right bits. Looks like the grey stuff and the copper is 22mm while the white stuff (looks remarkably like John Guest pipe) is 15mm and the ends of the white pipe go into reducers which provide 22mm male to 15mm female connections.

 

Ahhhhha!

I'll get me callipers out. 

3 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Whatever it is it can connect to or be replaced by any of the standard push fittings HEP20 [...]

 

Now that's really interesting

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OK, my loft is full of the grey fittings but with copper pipe. There's a few loose fittings here and there that I've collected. 

 

The top photo is Hep2O - see the vertical marks on the "nut". Guessing 20 years old as that's when the boiler and upstairs rads were put in.

 

The bottom one with the "wavy" line is from stuff I bought in the last few years. It's unmarked brand wise but I thought up until now it was Hep2O.

 

The designs are very similar. Don't FFS make the mistake I did and try and interchange parts between the two brands. Only time I've had a leak!

 

You seem to have the same mix of grey fittings that I do.

 

20171117_081523.thumb.jpg.f52b1d6d88bcbe404ae45c2f3baa4641.jpg

Edited by Onoff
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Back in the 90s the original Hep2O pipe didn't have an oxygen barrier which meant oxygen passed through the pipe walls and into the water. In a central heating system it resulted in corrosion on the radiators etc. even with inhibitor.

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On 17/11/2017 at 08:28, recoveringacademic said:

 

Que? Oxygen barrier?...... Plumber-speak for leak?

 

No - plumber speak for cheap as £&!# pipe ....

 

Not strictly needed but you can get some oxygenation of the water and corrosion but it takes decades ...

 

leave those gate valves alone too - short length of 22mm copper in each valve, same with the rad tails and then replace the lot with Hep2O.

 

Get some decent pipe shears too ...

Edited by Nickfromwales
Typo
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1 minute ago, PeterStarck said:

Back in the 90s the original Hep2O pipe didn't have an oxygen barrier which meant oxygen passed through the pipe walls and into the water. In a central heating system it resulted in corrosion in the radiators etc. even with inhibitor.

 

Got it in one. Exactly what we are suffering. It's all the rads which are in the old style HEP2O loop. Excellent tenente! 

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On 17/11/2017 at 08:34, PeterW said:

[...]

leave those gate gate valves alone too - short length of 22mm copper in each valve, same with the rad tails and then replace the lot with Hep2O.

[...]

 

Whassa gate gate valve?

Edited by Nickfromwales
It's like a gate valve, edited it out lol.
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1 minute ago, PeterW said:

Not strictly needed but you can get some oxygenation of the water and corrosion but it takes decades ...

 

Definitely not decades. From experience it takes about three years. I plumbed a house in the early nineties with the original Hep2O pipe and it caused no end of hassle.

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4 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

Definitely not decades. From experience it takes about three years. I plumbed a house in the early nineties with the original Hep2O pipe and it caused no end of hassle.

 

Surprised that it was only the Hep2O causing that. Open systems with F&E tanks caused a lot of issues, as did a mix of lower quality radiators and boilers with “new” aluminium heat exchangers. A constant source of oxygenated warm water and a nasty mix of metals was a recipe for lots of corrosion ..! 

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5 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

Surprised that it was only the Hep2O causing that. Open systems with F&E tanks caused a lot of issues, as did a mix of lower quality radiators and boilers with “new” aluminium heat exchangers. A constant source of oxygenated warm water and a nasty mix of metals was a recipe for lots of corrosion ..! 

The problem disappeared when I replaced all the Hep2O with Speedfit on the CH.

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1 hour ago, ProDave said:

Isn''t your "problem" the leaking radiator lockshield valve?  Isn't that what you are looking to replace?

 

Yes. But I'm also taking the plumbing bull by the horns (Bit like @jamiehamy) I've been scared of it the whole of my life, but not any more.

'... Lockshield valve...'  It's just a plain valve isn't it. What does it lock and what does it shield?

 

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

Couldn't you just buy some time with a power flush?

 

That looks like fun. (YT research) But I will want to sell our house this spring and its needs to be done pucca. By me Ha! :P 

 

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

[...]  Open systems with F&E tanks caused a lot of issues, as did a mix of lower quality radiators [...]

 

That's exactly what we have, an F&E system (Sound like I know what I'm on about dunnit? ) And the rads were probably 17th hand by the time they were fitted.

Looks like an interesting weekend ahead.

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2 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

@Onoff, I am almost sure we have been plumbed using what was left rolling around in the back of a plumbers van.

 

Amazing how the same plumber managed to do both our houses! :)

 

My losses here are horrendous as I've alluded to before I think. The CH for upstairs and HW for up & downstairs run in the uninsulated triangular roof spaces in front of the dormer.  All in copper with Hep2O grey fittings. I've tried lagging as best as I can. If I went "up the middle" of the dormer  above the ground floor ceiling I could more than halve the pipe runs. Disruptive though, as in rooms emptied and carpets up!

 

As for power flushing...you'd clear the crap out and improve the efficiency for another few years then its A N Others problem. That might sound mercenary but where do you stop. I'm sure new owners would appreciate EWI or you digging a few floors up and putting UFH in but you're not going too. Just clean for now, sell and accept its a periodic maintenance issue for someone else.

Edited by Onoff
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On the specific oxygen permeable /barrier  point, Hep2O sell two types of pipe one slightly cheaper than he other.  The more expensive barrier pipe must be used for CH applications for the reason that Peter explained, and can be used for potable water; the other can only be used for potable water, but is perfectly fine for that use.

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