curlewhouse Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Using a private inspection service at my architects recommendation. 1st inspector was great, sensible and most importantly, practical. Unfortunately he has left the company and the guy we now get is friendly but I get the feeling he is new in the job - for example questioning whether Kingspan SIPs are an approved building material (!) making *me* check if the 1mm /2mm packing used in spots along the soleplate by the erectors is acceptable or if it should be grouted (good luck getting <1mm grout in), - insisting I find out what the shrinkage is on the SIPs once built and so on (I replied that as a building inspector HE was more likely to get a reply from Kingspan than I was - and he did, it's tiny and effects our build methods not one iota) - his latest is insisting *he* check the first fix electrics, even though I have a Part P qualified electrician doing the certification... saying I cannot put up any plasterboard at all (a bit late as Ive several up, but one side of each wall only, so wiring is clearly visible) until he does so. I'm trying to keep it all friendly for obvious reasons, but it's getting to be a pain (there's lots more silly questions I've had to deal with but too much to relate here). I wonder has anyone else found a way to deal with this sort without putting their backs up so they make your build hell - as they hold all the cards & could make things crazy expensive for you (this one is also doing the surveys for our warranty). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiehamy Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Is this for your Building Control or your warranty inspections? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlewhouse Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) The guy is doing both, BC & Warranty inspections as it's all through the same firm. There's not been any obvious separation between the inspections if you see what I mean. I've politely texted him back about the latest thing pointing out that I have a Part P qualified electrician inspecting so wasn't aware it needs inspecting twice .... awaiting his response. Edited October 17, 2017 by curlewhouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Mostly inspections focus on foundations, a quick look at the superstructure, then after first fix, to make sure you sparky and plumber have not caused potential structural damage and insulation is in place. I have never had electrics looked at. As you say it is covered by Part P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 43 minutes ago, curlewhouse said: - his latest is insisting *he* check the first fix electrics, even though I have a Part P qualified electrician doing the certification... saying I cannot put up any plasterboard at all (a bit late as Ive several up, but one side of each wall only, so wiring is clearly visible) until he does so. Sounds like absolute bollocks to me. Unless he's a suitably certified electrician, what qualifications does he have to be inspecting an electrical installation anyway? If it's getting out of hand, I think the only thing you can do is get your knowledge straight (eg, find some official sources of why what he's asking for is out of order), and then have an open conversation with him about it. Explain that you're not a developer, but a self-builder doing the very best job you can to make your house compliant with (and indeed beyond) the minimum required by buildings regs, and that his demands are impacting your ability to keep momentum going onsite. Maybe explore where he gets the idea that he should be inspecting electrical work, for example, or querying the use of approved building materials such as SIPs. I think the danger with piecemeal communications based on particular instances (eg, your text to him about electrical work) is that they don't go to the heart of the problem, and may be interpreted by him as something to be suspicious about. Good luck, however you choose to tackle it. 1 minute ago, Mr Punter said: Mostly inspections focus on foundations, a quick look at the superstructure, then after first fix, to make sure you sparky and plumber have not caused potential structural damage and insulation is in place. I have never had electrics looked at. As you say it is covered by Part P. Exactly what happened with us. I was stunned when our (private) inspector took a five minute poke around after first fix (actually, electrics weren't even half finished, from memory) and then said he'd be back once everything was completed. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiehamy Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 It's probably slightly different in Scotland, but when it comes to mine it is as @Mr Puntersays brief inspection of the various areas by BC. When I talk to my BC about structural items, he was quite clear it's nothing do do with him - even if there is something that doesn't look right - he might suggest it but it's the Structural Engineers responsibility. Same for Electrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlewhouse Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 He's talking about a "pre plaster inspection" prior to any plaster board going up now. When he was last on site he said he would not need to come back until our stonework was at first cill height. Presumably he wants to inspect the studwork (Ive only had to build 5 stud walls as the others were put in by the SIPs people and carry load, though they did not put the studs in at the right centres for the plasterboard and used a strange non standard size of timber I've been unable to source in the UK, so the ones I've built are the normal sized timber but that's not an issue) I think I'll have to start politely challenging him along the line Jack suggests - and by email so there is a readable record if I end up having to go over his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Sometimes they want to inspect the fireproofing on steel beams before plastering. Could that be it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Maybe they also look at joist hangers, holding down straps, truss clips soleplate anchors and fire stopping. Never electrics though! Our warranty people have decided to carry out a structural review on our foundation design including SE calcs, pile design pack, pile integrity test results, pile logs and concrete cube tests over a year after we completed these works. Quite how anything could be done if they are not satisfied I am not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiehamy Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 50 minutes ago, Mr Punter said: Maybe they also look at joist hangers, holding down straps, truss clips soleplate anchors and fire stopping. Never electrics though! Our warranty people have decided to carry out a structural review on our foundation design including SE calcs, pile design pack, pile integrity test results, pile logs and concrete cube tests over a year after we completed these works. Quite how anything could be done if they are not satisfied I am not sure. Are you building the Empire State Building? Concrete Cube tests a year later? I've have given them a big F and O! That was one reason we avoided Warranty - we don't need one as we'll be there fore a long time and are building it 'properly' but it's just an extra level of grief - as you say, what if they are not satisfied? Bonkers! Since this morning I've arranged to meet my BCO onsite next week to talk through what he wants for temporary Habitation Certificate. I hope he's happy with what he sees - no going back now! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) The guy who inspected my roof was covering for the normal BC person while he was on holiday passed my roof from the top of my drive. Was a muck hole at the time and didn't want his shoes dirty. Could you have your spark on site so he can ask him what qualifies you to examine my electrical work the next time he is due to call. Edited October 17, 2017 by Declan52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlewhouse Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 No choice but to have a warranty, its a condition of the mortgage I'm afraid. He's seen the joist hangers already (and already made me put more nails in than the builders have - the builders who have built hundreds of these SIPS houses!) , and there are no concrete beams. I think I maybe have to talk to his boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richi Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, curlewhouse said: I think I maybe have to talk to his boss. Yeah. You contracted the company to do the inspections, not this guy. So your complaint is with the company. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, curlewhouse said: I think I maybe have to talk to his boss. I'm sure his boss wants to see happy customers and his employees spending only as much time on each inspection as they need to. Sounds like this guy's fallen short on both counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlewhouse Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 Well, I've written to the Senior BCO there and explained my issues (tbh I didn't find it easy as I think the guys just inexperienced, and he's certainly friendly in his manner, but enough is enough), so we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 The warranty company should have issued a specification of inspections - basically listing out at the start what they want. The BCO/inspector can only request additional inspections if either the work is not complete or they issue a remediation notice and require an inspection of the remediated work before the next stage. I use a private BCO and he’s brilliant - on hand for both advice and to take a pragmatic approach to inspections.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, jamiehamy said: Are you building the Empire State Building? From breaking ground to opening on Empire State was about 16 months . It might even have been built by a Polish Builders .. 'emigrants from Europe'. Edited October 18, 2017 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlewhouse Posted October 18, 2017 Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 Whats a shame is all this means I daren't ask him for advice as I know I'd end up being told to do (& thus pay for) far more than is really necessary for any given job. We do wonder if he's new at it, though he's probably in his 40s as some of the questions I've had to answer have actually been quite silly. I've put my concerns down and asked the senior BCO to state up front what inspections the want, and as Jack suggested explained that as a self builder my time is extremely limited to after work and on days off, so bringng my work to a halt is NOT why I employed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlewhouse Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 Well, his boss basically backed him up and re the use of SIPS said that if a client/builder uses a "non standard " method of construction it's up to them to satisfy the BCO - so obviously BBA certification etc counts for nothing to these guys! So it looks like out goes the just-in-case silicone sealing we applied (just ensuring airtightness) and in goes pointless grouting in sub 1mm gaps (I've ordered a gun to do it). On the plus side I got them to give up the warranty inspection list and it does say "pre plaster" inspection then a final one, so no mention of his half built wall inspection (though I can see a good reason for that one actually - checking wall tie spacing, or snot bridging for instance) and no reply from the BCO when I've pointed out I told him we were ready for that inspection a week ago and I'm *not* telling the builder to stop as 7 days is plenty of notice to come and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Did you go "full plans approval" with building control? If so your "non standard" build will have been detailed in the plans, which they have agreed. Therefore ALL you have to do is build according to the approved plans and they will have to pass it. They only have cause to complain if you deviate from the approved plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlewhouse Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) Yes, full plans approval. The senior BCO conveniently avoided answering my point that his BCOs should easily be expected to have heard of SIPs and Kingspan before! The BCO had said he wanted to come back and see inside the walls when they were at first windowsill height, but a week later from me telling him we are at that point has not appeared. I emailed him yesterday pointing out it is now 7 days since I told him that we are at that point and he has not attended and I am not going top stop the build to wait for him, and that I expect in future he turns up in less than 7 days (whilst they've got set timescales of the BCO part, there is no statutory time limit on the warranty inspections of course). Today I got an automatic reply saying he's away on holiday! So I've sent it on to the senior BCO saying its up to them if they want to turn up or not. Edited October 25, 2017 by curlewhouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Keep copies of those emails ..!! You can pass them to the warranty company in the event of any issue. The normal terms of business are 48 hours notice for an inspection - if he’s added one that wasn’t in there too it’s questionable as to who will pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiehamy Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I really feel for you. I met my BCO yesterday on site after phoning him on Thursday. I wanted to know what we need for a Temporary Habitation certificate - he said his boss doesn't like them but as we've not finished the garage it won't be an issue. We walked through the entire house and he gave me lots of pointers and suggestions. I 'fessed up about the OSB on the plant room walls - said its not a problem. I've now got my checklist and we're aiming for December. Can't believe the grief you're having, def keep emails and also lots of photographs of what they don't inspect just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH202020 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Take lots of photos.... Seemed to work for my BC, in fact he insisted, sent them at different stages, job done, happy man He did of course turn up sometimes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlewhouse Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Yes, our initial BCO had that approach too since we're a long way from their base, and having met our builder and myself, been familiar with our builders previous work, and heard my own background (electricians, plumbers and joiners in the family) said pictures would be good for him for a few of the things, but unfortunately he left the firm. If it wasn't for the warranty being through these folks I'd swallow the cost and sack them off actually if I could find another BCO firm willing to accept their first inspection certificates, but unfortunately we are tied to them now because of all the money I paid them for the warranty. I cannot even ask him for friendly advice as I'll end up with the most expensive and time consuming option as the answer, then be inspected to the n'th degree on whatever it was (which I probably will be anyway now I've complained). I am convinced he is new to the job and is very risk averse as a result. Its where BCOs who were previously in the building trade are far better as they understand the realities. Its a shame as actually like the guy as a person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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