Vacuum cleaner recommendations?

[PeterW]

14 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

, I came home, did a bit of surfing around, and bought a new one for £60, with the 6 year manufacturers guarantee and it comes with the rotating brush head (not fussed about that, but it might be useful for cleaning the car).

 

Any chance of a link @JSHarris as I’m in the market for a new one ...

[Jeremy Harris]

Just now, PeterW said:

 

Any chance of a link @JSHarris as I’m in the market for a new one ...

 

 

It was from Vax, selling via Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vax-C88-AM-PE-Compact-Cylinder-Vacuum/dp/B00KIMBLRQ/ref=sr_1_138?srs=1638859031&ie=UTF8&qid=1507572169&sr=8-138

 

Bear in mind this is the small 2 litre unit - I was deliberately looking for a small model, as I've decided to have a go at making a proper cyclone dust extractor/vacuum for the workshop, as it seemed to make more sense (plus it will be a fun project to build...............).

[ryder72]

Having had a Miele for over 15 years, Dyson for 5 and a Henry at work.

 

I found the Miele to clean very well and is very robust and still going strong. The only downside is that the dustbags fill up and it loses suction.

The Dyson cleans very well but seems to be built from recycled supermarket chilled food plastic cartons. The build quality is shocking and its pretty much fallen apart in 5 years. Shocking for a premium product. Building a vacuum cleaner from robust materials isnt rocket science. If Dyson want to fly the flag for British manufacturing they have to do better.

Henry - Tough as nails. Keeps  going. Not the best at cleaning but for the price its hard to fault. Its used in a commercial environment so less that good cleaning is OK but I am not sure I would have one at home.

 

Based on the above, I would buy Miele again.

[Jeremy Harris]

Your experience with Dyson mirrors ours.  SWMBO bought it on the basis of the advertising hype, and it really was the most crappily designed and made bit of junk I've ever encountered.  It certainly had reasonably suction, when new, with clean filters, but it was a complete PITA to empty and change/clean the filters.  Ours also started to just disintegrate after a year or so, and I glued bits of badly made stuff back together for a time to keep it going, but then the nut came off the end of the motor fan shaft and the motor burnt out.  By that stage just about every part of the Dyson had already cracked or broken in some way, so I just binned it.  Nothing would induce me to go near them again, as far as I'm concerned they are just over-hyped, poorly made, very expensive junk.  The sales techniques make me think that Dyson had lessons from Kirby - how to sell a mediocre product for a premium price...........

 

All the reviews I've read in the past day or so seem to show Miele to be very good.  The use of bags was one thing that put me off, though, together with the price.

 

Whilst I'm on the topic, the Vax cordless vacuum cleaner is very good.  We bought one for the new house, which has mainly hard flooring, with a few rugs, and it does a very good job.  At half the price of the Dyson cordless I'd say it's probably equally as good, bearing in mind that none of the cordless models are anywhere near as powerful as a corded cleaner.

[dpmiller]

At least Kirby machines are solid...

 

it always amazes me that no-one has yet sued the pants off Dyson about that "no filter" thing?

[JamesP]

53 minutes ago, ryder72 said:

Having had a Miele for over 15 years, Dyson for 5 and a Henry at work.

Based on the above, I would buy Miele again.

Same experience Miele, Dyson and a Henry.

Miele for the home and Henry for the garage / workshop.

[jack]

We made the silly mistake of buying a Dyson upright around the time we started building the house. I was stunned at how flimsy it was - the whole handle flexed when you twisted it to steer. After only a few weeks' ownership, my wife made the mistake of bringing it over to the new house and vacuuming up some concrete dust off the floor with it. The motor developed a horrible high-pitched squeal that's never gone away. A few months later, the mechanism that redirects air when use the wand jammed so you couldn't use the wand properly. The mechanism that releases the drum for emptying has always been stiff and difficult to operate.

 

I'd never buy one again. It's a shame, because there's some brilliant technology in them. I just don't understand why they need to be so flimsy.

 

We then borrowed a Henry from a family member who hires them out (he runs a plant hire business). According to him, they never, ever break. One of the gusy we had onsite said that he'd been given one by a mate, which he owned and used onsite for 5 years before realising you could get bags for them!

 

The difference is palpable. Unbelievably, the cheap industrial Henry is quieter then the expensive domestic Dyson. The suction probably isn't as good, but frankly you can have too much suction on a deep carpet like we have upstairs (and you can't modulate the Dyson's suction power down). The bags are cheap - 50p each if you buy on Amazon Prime with other stuff. There's no way we'd be able to get through enough bags in the machine's lifetime to make up even half of the Dyson's higher price.

[Jeremy Harris]

Given that Dyson's are so badly made, I wonder why they get such rave reviews online?

 

Everyone I know that's ever owned a Dyson has moaned about the really poor build quality, and it makes me wonder if a lot of people just don't feel they should complain because they paid twice as much for a Dyson as they would have for a far more reliable vacuum cleaner.

 

Out of curiosity, I'm going to completely strip down our 30 year old Vax 121, to see just what state it's in.  It's a bit battered and bruised externally, as it got relegated to being my workshop vacuum around 20 years ago, then got moved to the new house as the site vacuum, where it's been seriously abused. 

 

The new one should arrive tomorrow, so there's nothing to be lost by stripping down the old one to see what's making the odd noise.

[daiking]

9 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

Everyone I know that's ever owned a Dyson has moaned about the really poor build quality.

 

Not me, I must be the only satisfied customer in the world.

[oranjeboom]

On 10/8/2017 at 20:24, PeterW said:

The other thing to bear in mind is Numatic who make Henry make an industrial hoover with the same guts but a different casing. These come up at auction a lot and get ignored as people are looking for the Henry’s ... 

 Is this one you are referring to? I need something guts, not just for the build, but also for the mrs who goes thru hoovers like she goes ladders her tights ("oooops, I need another one....")

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Numatic-Industrial-Commercial-Dry-Vacuum-Cleaner-Collection-Only-Leeds-Henry-/192328789937

 

On 10/8/2017 at 18:18, Ferdinand said:

Aldi have a 1500w wet dry workshop model for £50, which should be OK.

https://www.aldi.co.uk/workzone-wet-and-dry-workshop-vacuum/p/078756159811300

 

Ferdinand

 

 

Thanks - I looked at that but even though they say it's for the workshops and garage they do stipulate "Not designed for use in commercial, trade or industrial applications", so not sure how durable it will be on a work site. Still it has a 3 year guarantee. Just need to make sure you remove the bits of rubble and plaster when you take it back!!

[Ferdinand]

3 minutes ago, oranjeboom said:

 Is this one you are referring to? I need something guts, not just for the build, but also for the mrs who goes thru hoovers like she goes ladders her tights ("oooops, I need another one....")

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Numatic-Industrial-Commercial-Dry-Vacuum-Cleaner-Collection-Only-Leeds-Henry-/192328789937

 

 

Thanks - I looked at that but even though they say it's for the workshops and garage they do stipulate "Not designed for use in commercial, trade or industrial applications", so not sure how durable it will be on a work site. Still it has a 3 year guarantee. Just need to make sure you remove the bits of rubble and plaster when you take it back!!

 

I think that is probably weasel words to get out of some legal duty or other.

 

My Wickes cashcard says for personal use only, but they have never stopped me stacking it with a Trade Discount.

 

Edited October 10, 2017 by Ferdinand

[joe90]

Dyson, emperors new clothes!

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, oranjeboom said:

 Is this one you are referring to? I need something guts, not just for the build, but also for the mrs who goes thru hoovers like she goes ladders her tights ("oooops, I need another one....")

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Numatic-Industrial-Commercial-Dry-Vacuum-Cleaner-Collection-Only-Leeds-Henry-/192328789937

 

 

Thanks - I looked at that but even though they say it's for the workshops and garage they do stipulate "Not designed for use in commercial, trade or industrial applications", so not sure how durable it will be on a work site. Still it has a 3 year guarantee. Just need to make sure you remove the bits of rubble and plaster when you take it back!!

 

This sort of thing

 

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Henry-Commercial-1200-Watt-Hoover-/182813386417

 

Motors are about £28 to replace - not much else to go wrong. 

 

[Barney12]

3 hours ago, daiking said:

 

Not me, I must be the only satisfied customer in the world.

 

Ditto. Buy a V8* cordless for your house. You'll never look back.

*Note previous versions had appalling battery life but they have solved the issue with the V8.

 

Not for DIY. Everyone has a DIY hoover right?

[Jeremy Harris]

Guess what?  You know I wrote in this post:

3 hours ago, JSHarris said:

Out of curiosity, I'm going to completely strip down our 30 year old Vax 121, to see just what state it's in.  It's a bit battered and bruised externally, as it got relegated to being my workshop vacuum around 20 years ago, then got moved to the new house as the site vacuum, where it's been seriously abused. 

 

The new one should arrive tomorrow, so there's nothing to be lost by stripping down the old one to see what's making the odd noise.

 that I was going to strip the ancient Vax to find out where the ominous noise was coming from?

 

Well, I started by removing the switch cover, to gain access to one of the bolts that holds the motor cover and handle on, as the noise seemed to be coming from the motor.  This is what I found as I removed the cover:

 

 

Yes, that's right, the nut that holds the switch in place had completely unscrewed itself.  The odd noise was the nut vibrating inside the housing.  I've screwed the nut back on and the thing is working fine, no funny noises or whatever and loads of suction.  I'll just give it a good clean, treat it to a new set of filters and with luck it'll see me out.....................

 

[Gone West]

5 hours ago, JSHarris said:

Everyone I know that's ever owned a Dyson has moaned about the really poor build quality

We have a Dyson and don't have any problems with it at all.

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, PeterStarck said:

We have a Dyson and don't have any problems with it at all.

13 years our Dyson ball upright lasted. Wife would have had another if I didn't drop a log when I saw the price of it's successor ?????

[Jeremy Harris]

Maybe they were just a bit variable in build quality?  Certainly ours really just fell apart, and it didn't get any abuse, as for anything outside, in the workshop or whatever I always used the old Vax.

 

Being British made for years, I guess that they may have suffered from some of the quality problems that seem to beset some British manufacturers, with quality varying day by day in some cases.  It may well be that the later models overcame some of these earlier problems - our Dyson was one of the first models they made, I think.

[Calvinmiddle]

1 hour ago, PeterStarck said:

We have a Dyson and don't have any problems with it at all.

I'm another happy Dyson owner, so much so I bought a cordless hand held jobbie for the new house as it's mostly tiled.  Big upright hardly even gets out now.

[ryder72]

46 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

Maybe they were just a bit variable in build quality?  Certainly ours really just fell apart, and it didn't get any abuse, as for anything outside, in the workshop or whatever I always used the old Vax.

 

Being British made for years, I guess that they may have suffered from some of the quality problems that seem to beset some British manufacturers, with quality varying day by day in some cases.  It may well be that the later models overcame some of these earlier problems - our Dyson was one of the first models they made, I think.

 

Likewise.

The clips securing the dust container on the upright just wore loose. Replaced under warranty.

The mechanism that direct suction from hose to brush head disintegrated while vacuuming.

The brush head has now got very deep grooves in it from wear. Surely some sort of harder plastic is called for here. Or maybe some sacrificial easily replaced bushes rather than the whole mechanism is called for here. My Miele with the same feature is nearly 3 times older and even the rubber drive belts are original and going strong.

 

All of this points to just poor quality components. 

 

Someone I know who works in facilities had 10 airblades installed in their offices. 6 had developed problems inside a year.

 

Speaks very poorly of British (Malaysian) manufacturing. 

 

I am torn between spending £38 on a replacement brush head for the vacuum cleaner or just scrapping it and looking at one of the bagless Miele machines.

[Jeremy Harris]

I've just had a notice from Amazon that the £60 Vax C88-AM-PE that I ordered will be arriving tomorrow, so as soon as it does I'll take some photos and give it a test.  The old Vax 121 should be a good comparison, now it's back working again, as that has so much suction that on full blast it sticks the brush head so hard to a carpet that my other half found it really hard work to use.  Having found that what I thought was a terminal problem with the old Vax was just a loose switch nut, I'm even more impressed.  I did go ahead and completely strip and wash out the whole thing, so it's now spotlessly clean inside (must be the first time in decades), so with new filters and a clean bag it should be close to it's original performance.  If the £60 Vax works as well as the 30 year old one then I shall be seriously impressed.

 

BTW, the old Vax 121 was built like brick outhouse.  I totally stripped it, every single part was removed and cleaned, including the motor unit.  I was amazed to find that after 30 years the motor was still in very good condition, with no dirt on the commutator and the brushes looking as if they had plenty of life left in them.  It also has a very well put together motor electrical noise suppression system with both a delta capacitor network plus a common mode choke on the motor feed wires.  Overall I'd say it was seriously over-engineered, with very think plastic mouldings and inset threaded inserts for all the screws holding it together.  No wonder the thing is heavy, most of the weight is in the massive casing and all the screws holding it together.

 

Thinking back to our old Dyson, the main problems initially were that the filters would clog up very quickly, so we were getting through packets of filters like nobodies business.  Next, the catch that holds the duct bucket failed, and was replaced under warranty.  That was followed by the base of the dust bucket developing a pattern of star cracks, that I tried to glue back together but ended up fixing by casting a small amount of epoxy resin into the base.  The the drive belt failed - it just burnt through where it runs around the motor spindle.  Interesting to find that Dyson only sell these in packs of two - they obviously anticipate that they will fail regularly and need replacing.  Next failure was one of the wheels fell off - apparently a common problem.  The cause was that the securing star washer had been fitted at an angle, and had sheared.  I managed to find a replacement of the right size, and made sure it was driven on square.  Next the cable internal insulation failed close to where it winds around the upper cable holder,  That was fixed by splicing the cable and adding a length of heatshrink sleeving as reinforcement.  The penultimate failure was an ongoing one, the clip that holds one side of the brush head rotation mechanism came  off again.  This is a complete PITA to get back in place, and means stripping most of the lower part of the unit.  I had just fixed this at the weekend, ready to clean my car, when the motor started to make an odd noise.  I stripped the thing yet again to find that the nut that holds the fan impeller on had come loose, not only losing suction, but also losing cooling air to the motor.  I refitted the nut, with some loctite, only to find that I was too late, and that the motor was toast....................

 

No amount of persuasion is going to convince me that this Dyson was ever a well-made product.  It has so many design and manufacturing faults that the thing was a joke.  We'd had that Dyson around 5 years before we binned it out of frustration.  Compare that with the 30 year old, very much abused, Vax 121 that I've just brought back to life and looks like it has the potential to last another 20 years.  Which was the better made product, I wonder?

[daiking]

I’ve got a modern “original Vax” and I doubt it is as sturdy as the 121 but it does seem reasonably sturdy. I was however amazed to see it is now £130 rather than what I paid 2 years ago. I’d best reclaim it from the borrower.

[Temp]

Our Dyson is 10 years old and still going strong. I think many people never clean the filters and wonder why the motor burns out.

[TerryE]

An easy way to get a powerful vacuum is to leave out the filter.

 

I am not suggesting this seriously, but my point is that in all of this discussion there seems to have been no consideration of the residual particle size in the exhaust.  And 20+ year old vacs might suck like the devil, but they perform terribly when you use this criterion.  The Henry-style vacuums definitely have a use: lifting loads of heavy course dust -- so long as you don't mind leaving a fug of micro dust in the air.  Great for a build, but terrible for a home.

 

I would suggest that you consider filtration performance if you are thinking about use in your new airtight, MVHR-served house. 

 

To be honest, we have a couple of Henry-style vacs that we use for heavy duty stuff in the new house, including doubling as dust extractors for my power tools, but we also have a Dyson cylinder vac, and a Dyson cordless that we use in the one we are currently living in.  The one we use the most and the one that I like the best is the cordless.  Why?  It is extremely light and manoeuvrable, and its exhaust is very clean. So it's easy to cart around the house especially up and down stairs, and it removes the dust once and for all.

[Jeremy Harris]

The filters in the ancient Vax 121 seem pretty good.  There is a bag that acts as a primary filter, then a large diameter (~300mm) fine fabric filter, then there is a fairly standard looking HEPA type washable filter. 

 

Not sure what filters the Henry has, but the old Vax 121 seems to have filters that are at least as good, most probably better, than the two very thin filters that our old Dyson had.

 

I've not had a chance to do a side by side comparison between the ancient Vax 121 and the new Vax multi cyclone one.  First impressions are that the new Vax is pretty good, and very light and easy to use.

Edited October 12, 2017 by JSHarris