Blockwork's out!

[Pocster]

Hey all!

 

Paying for my errors now :-)

Timber frame is up so have something nice and straight to follow!

Need to put up my external thermalite single skinned wall (just tied through the cavity and insulation into the timber frame)

My run of low block work done before the timber frame etc. seems to be out i.e. 25mm wider at one end .......

In the photo I've stood a brick on end and you can see the over hang compared to the brick at the other end (if you zoom in) which is fully on the blockwork . Both bricks are the same distance from the timber frame hence the obvious drift.....

I was going to do my DPC along this length then the blockwork.

Do I just continue as shown? i.e. have the blockwork overhang by 25mm?; or bring the the end in 25mm??? (if so what do I do about the bit that will now be sticking out below the DPC?

Split the difference? be 15mm or so out each end?

 

My main issue is thermalite not fully sat on anything and also how I 'cut back' or indeed 'pack out' the courses below DPC as they will be visible (I assume it's easier to render it out i.e. thicken it up).

 

Any advice welcome for my error! 

 

Cheers

Edited September 14, 2017 by pocster
Can't spell or build

[Declan52]

What insulation are you using in the cavity?? 

Just build away as it is and accept the fact that the cavity is a bit narrower at that near side. Won't really make much difference at all. 

As long as you don't close the cavity on the way up by building out of plumb there will still be a gap to allow ventilation.

Do you have some timber like a door frame ( nice and straight) that you can use as a set of profiles so you can mark on it you're heights on the way up, 225-450-675-900 etc. Will keep your beds the same and also help to keep your corner plumb both ways. 

[Pocster]

3 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

What insulation are you using in the cavity?? 

Just build away as it is and accept the fact that the cavity is a bit narrower at that near side. Won't really make much difference at all. 

As long as you don't close the cavity on the way up by building out of plumb there will still be a gap to allow ventilation.

Do you have some timber like a door frame ( nice and straight) that you can use as a set of profiles so you can mark on it you're heights on the way up, 225-450-675-900 etc. Will keep your beds the same and also help to keep your corner plumb both ways. 

That insulation you can see is the below ground section which is 150mm no cavity.

As I'm above ground now BOC wants 50mm cavity and 100mm insulation.

 

Not sure what you mean by build away as is.... I'm trying to get my thermalite wall straight i.e. so it's parallel with the gutter for example so 'looks' good.

If you are saying use the far end brick as 'correct' (i.e. 50mm cavity) and then just bring the wall in so it's straight but the cavity shrinks then I got it :-)

But then the block work below will 'stick out' ; as it will be visible do I just 'hack' that back??? (before it all gets rendered)??

[ProDave]

This raises a few issues:

 

I thought insulating the cavity between a timber frame and the blockwork skin was a big no no? A lot iof insurers won't insure a timber frame that has had cavity insulation added.

 

You are supposed to put fire stop beads in the cavity at first floor level and around windows, so that rules out a tapered cavity.

 

I see no option but step the first block out, or take a course or 2 off and re lay (so the step is below ground)

 

On our previous bui;d the brickies must have had a wonky tape, or miss red the drawings. The blockwork stepped in about 20mm, then 2 courses up, stepped back out 20mm. Thankfully all below ground level so not seen.

[ToughButterCup]

Block work being 'out' . I groaned when I read that.

I've just spent several thousand pounds correcting that (and other) errors. What is it with sodding blocks?

 

[Declan52]

Doubt you will be allowed to over hang the blocks by 25mm. 

You could step it out by 10mm and build to the out side of the black line on the bubble and by the time you get 6-8 course high you should have your 50mm cavity.

Are you allowed cavity insulation in the as long as you have a cavity, ie you can't full fill the cavity?? 

What type of insulation are you going to use???

Or get the spade out and dig down a bit and fix it there.

[Pocster]

36 minutes ago, ProDave said:

This raises a few issues:

 

I thought insulating the cavity between a timber frame and the blockwork skin was a big no no? A lot iof insurers won't insure a timber frame that has had cavity insulation added.

 

You are supposed to put fire stop beads in the cavity at first floor level and around windows, so that rules out a tapered cavity.

 

I see no option but step the first block out, or take a course or 2 off and re lay (so the step is below ground)

 

On our previous bui;d the brickies must have had a wonky tape, or miss red the drawings. The blockwork stepped in about 20mm, then 2 courses up, stepped back out 20mm. Thankfully all below ground level so not seen.

Architect's spec!; insulation on the outside of timber frame.

I did 'step' my blockwork out at a cavity of 220mm so that the thermalite wall is sat on the existing 'wonky' wall. I could then raise my DPC (still below the timber frame DPC) and make this my 'new' ground level i.e. wonky bit is below ground. BCO is out tomorrow to check other things so might ask him.

 

[Pocster]

32 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

Block work being 'out' . I groaned when I read that.

I've just spent several thousand pounds correcting that (and other) errors. What is it with sodding blocks?

 

LOL!. Too be fair too myself. I did these maybe a year ago!. It's only how 'out' they are I get to realise when the timber frame goes up. I find it strange that I can't lay a straight line of blocks but got my timber frame base coursework level <3mm out!; the guy was amazed!. I made the hard job easy and the easy job hard! 

Edited September 14, 2017 by pocster

[Pocster]

29 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Doubt you will be allowed to over hang the blocks by 25mm. 

You could step it out by 10mm and build to the out side of the black line on the bubble and by the time you get 6-8 course high you should have your 50mm cavity.

Are you allowed cavity insulation in the as long as you have a cavity, ie you can't full fill the cavity?? 

What type of insulation are you going to use???

Or get the spade out and dig down a bit and fix it there.

I'd rather have full insulation in there and mentioned it to BCO ages ago. He wants a 50mm cavity......

Insulation is just usual foil backed stuff. I should point out I am also going to insulate within the timber frame internally. This seems to cause great debate and I can never find the 'right' answer. So (architect agreed) I'm doing both.

[Pocster]

@ProDave

"On our previous bui;d the brickies must have had a wonky tape, or miss red the drawings. The blockwork stepped in about 20mm, then 2 courses up, stepped back out 20mm. Thankfully all below ground level so not seen."

 

Sure that wasn't me?? 

[Pocster]

Then the next issue will be wall ties that can deal with a 200mm cavity.

Not the usual thing so 'custom' = EXPENSIVE! 

[ToughButterCup]

14 minutes ago, pocster said:

Then the next issue will be wall ties that can deal with a 200mm cavity.

Not the usual thing so 'custom' = EXPENSIVE! 

 

Make your own from a pair of your other half's tights? Someone here will have beaten this problem before now.....

[Pocster]

1 minute ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

Make your own from a pair of your other half's tights? Someone here will have beaten this problem before now.....

LOL!

Helifix and twistfix seem to be the main distributors. 

[JohnW]

5 minutes ago, pocster said:

LOL!

Helifix and twistfix seem to be the main distributors. 

We're going with a 200mm cavity and have been recommended Teplo type 325mm long ties, but you're right...expensive compared to ordinary ties.

Edited September 14, 2017 by JohnW
update incorrect length to 325mm

[Pocster]

1 minute ago, JohnW said:

We're going with a 200mm cavity and have been recommended Teplo type 2325mm long ties, but you're right...expensive compared to ordinary ties.

Thats twistfix yeah?

I've got to go from masonry to timber (not quite sure how you hit stud and not just OSB....); What are you fixing from and too??

[Declan52]

Go inside and measure the distances center to centre of the studs. Then go outside and draw the centre lines on the wrap. 

[Pocster]

1 hour ago, Declan52 said:

Go inside and measure the distances center to centre of the studs. Then go outside and draw the centre lines on the wrap. 

:-)

I know this is what I was going to do anyway ; I was semi-jesting..... got bigger issues to burn 

Edited September 14, 2017 by pocster
twatty typing issues

[JohnW]

5 minutes ago, pocster said:

Thats twistfix yeah?

I've got to go from masonry to timber (not quite sure how you hit stud and not just OSB....); What are you fixing from and too??

Fair point, we're going from block to block, they probably won't work for brick to wood. They do an "L tie" which might work.

Edited September 14, 2017 by JohnW

[Pocster]

OK!

 

Here we go

 

https://www.ancon.co.uk/products/wall-ties-restraint-fixings/cavity-wall-ties/ties-for-timber-frames

 

Upto 300mm cavity!

 

Though as it fixes off the timber frame I would need to cut the insulation to suit a row of ties.....

Of yeah around £1.50 a tie at the moment....

[Pocster]

Correction £2.50 each + VAT!!! FFS!

[Russell griffiths]

Can you not make your own ties? 

You can buy the helicoil in 3m lengths and just chop it up. 

[Ferdinand]

4 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Can you not make your own ties? 

You can buy the helicoil in 3m lengths and just chop it up. 

 

Speculating, that looks to be an interesting smallish cost saving idea.

 

Are these the kind of thing that can be less expensive from eg Poland?

 

Ferdinand

 

[Construction Channel]

11 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Can you not make your own ties? 

You can buy the helicoil in 3m lengths and just chop it up. 

I assume you mean this stuff

https://www.permagard.co.uk/stainless-steel-helical-spiral-bar-3-metre?gclid=Cj0KCQjw0ejNBRCYARIsACEBhDM0NP8lWl6ogOx0ixgLWua25136-J0ovgBODu1VOfv5d3kspzP2kDYaAgxiEALw_wcB

if so you are going to do well to hammer foot long lengths of that through OSB, even with a pilot hole i reckon they will bend more often than not

 

I thought the same about just cutting up some " builders strapping"

https://www.orbitalfasteners.co.uk/en/products/fixing-band-0-9-thick-x-20mm-wide-x-10-metre-galvanised?utm_medium=google_shopping&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=google_shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0ejNBRCYARIsACEBhDNjKo3YyIpnZknszaqL3HSfktQi574aRmzAydhTWkVKIYyNdheLCrkaAoLtEALw_wcB

considering the metal the official frame ties are made of I can't see it would be any weaker. it'll be interesting to see what BC would say about it...

 

 

[Russell griffiths]

   9 hours ago,  Russell griffiths said: 

Can you not make your own ties? 

You can buy the helicoil in 3m lengths and just chop it up. 

I assume you mean this stuff

https://www.permagard.co.uk/stainless-steel-helical-spiral-bar-3-metre?gclid=Cj0KCQjw0ejNBRCYARIsACEBhDM0NP8lWl6ogOx0ixgLWua25136-J0ovgBODu1VOfv5d3kspzP2kDYaAgxiEALw_wcB

if so you are going to do well to hammer foot long lengths of that through OSB, even with a pilot hole i reckon they will bend more often than not

 

 

it comes with an instillation tool which is basically a piece of tube with a capped end for thumping with your hammer. 

[Construction Channel]

Ahhh. Very clever.