Sometimes nightmares drag on and on and ......

[ToughButterCup]

This post is part of a series (I will write it all up as a blog one day when I have had time to develope a sense of perspective) ; but now I am raw - angry, knackered, wiser.

 

After we  had parted company with the  builder, a specialist Durisol company were given a brief to take down any face of the house which showed any evidence of poor building practice or any other error. Down came the west, south, north walls: the east wall, bless it, was the one that got blown down: so we just built up the bit that fell down.

Massive, massive error when the original builders (I now know having reviewed the time lapse imagery) had spent a significant amount of time hammering some of the east wall Durisol blocks back into place, when they could have re-laid them with some care in the first place.

 

We poured the west, south and north faces (the ones we rebuilt completely ourselves) with no problems at all. 

You can hear this coming can't you? One whole section of the east wall just burst during the pour. About a cubic meter of concrete landed on the floor from two meters up. Cue an hour of shoveling. And swearing and murderous feelings channeled  into demonic shoveling.

 

I used to think that I wanted to spend our money locally. And since very few companies 'do' Durisol, most building firms were going to need training. Which we attended.

 

And here's the thing: the company staff didn't. The MD did, but the staff didn't. And frankly they couldn't have given a stuff about the build. So when the boss absented himself for extended periods, it was a recipe for disaster. Worse, even his staff couldn't contact him by phone.

Sadly, my little attempt at investing in localism died a death today. Garstang and South Lancaster does what it does. If something isn't known or isn't always like it has been, and forever will be, they don't want to know.  I suspect that's not unique to Lancashire.

 

One potential roofer came round late today, and sneered gently at everything we showed him.  Passiv? Whassat? MVHR whaaafor? He'd never seen a roof designed to our spec - no call for it; shakes? Good luck with that; Sikaflex? Never heard of it (its the brand name of a Preston-based roofing materials production company; local people in the village work there); vaulted ceiling? Don't have much call for that. "But I've been roofing round here for 25 years and I'm sure I could do an excellent job." 

 

I'll bet. But not on our cash.

Yet another post that has to end with.....

Still, if we can't take a joke, we shouldn't have started should we?

[Barney12]

Oh bother

 

I think like many on here I feel your pain. Devon is not renowned for its "forward thinking" and "modern methods of construction".

We've certainly had our fair share of "you're doing what?".

One local builder practically walked off site in disbelief when I tried to explain a passive slab. "It will be in a new postcode lad when the rain comes".

As for roofers, well they appear to be particularly adept in "teeth sucking" which is why in the end I went DIY. 

 

As as you say.....if you can't take a joke.

[Onoff]

Trouble is that thinking out of the box takes time. It takes a special kind of tradesman to do so. One who can bring something rather than just an average or even below par job.

 

Anyway, just think of the money you're SAVING on gym fees!

[Barney12]

As an aside our nearest neighbour is currently having a double garage built. 

Pretty simple affair, concrete slab, timber frame, slate roof, timber clad. 

They're now 8 weeks into the build. 3 weeks of 2 men (boys) to scrape the soil and lay the slab. It was the funniest thing I've ever watched. Two lads with a mini digger and a mini dumper, I'm not sure either of them had a drivers licence yet!

 

In fairness the frame (simple stick frame, 4 walls) went up in a few days. Then there was a delivery of pre-made roof trusses, bloody dozens of them. They're certainly not getting any loft storage! Hand cutting that roof would take a day at best.

 

But over the past 10 days they've been doing the roof. It's been a joy to watch. 2 days to felt, another two days to batten and then the they started the slates. No word of a lie there are two of them; one slates whilst the other sits on a cushion and watches! Yes I did say cushion, it's a nice brown colour, he positions it across the battens and just sits and watches. I reckon it's a good week before they'll finish slating and adding the ridge tiles. 

 

I dont know this neigbour but I hope to god they got a fixed price!!!!  

 

This is our daily watch from the scaffold. It's like our very own building soap opera across the hedge!

Edited August 22, 2017 by Barney12

[daiking]

3 minutes ago, Barney12 said:

As an aside our nearest neighbour is currently having a double garage built. 

Pretty simple affair, concrete slab, timber frame, slate roof, timber clad. 

They're now 8 weeks into the build. 3 weeks of 2 men (boys) to scrape the soil and lay the slab. It was the funniest thing I've ever watched. Two lads with a mini digger and a mini dumper, I'm not sure either of them had a drivers licence yet!

 

In fairness the frame (simple stick frame, 4 walls) went up in a few days. Then there was a delivery of pre-made roof trusses, bloody dozens of them. They're certainly not getting any loft storage! Hand cutting that roof would take a day at best.

 

But over the past 10 days they've been doing the roof. It's been a joy to watch. 2 days to felt, another two days to batten and then the they started the roof. No word of a lie there are two of them; one slates whilst the other sits on a cushion and watches! Yes I did say cushion, it's a nice brown colour, he positions it across the battens and just sits and watches. I reckon it's a good week before they'll finish slating and adding the ridge tiles. 

 

I dont know this neigbour but I hope to god they got a fixed price!!!!  

 

This is our daily watch from the scaffold. It's like our very own building soap opera across the hedge!

 

That old chestnut. The boss comes round to quote for the job, fills you with confidence. 3 month later when the job kicks off you end up with a couple of wagging schoolboys or worse, some absconders from the local remand centre (Risley is a favourite of mine).

 

If I could, I'd live in a ****ing tent just to spite the ****s.

[CC45]

Feel gutted for you.  We are a bit more trad - timber frame and brick outer but I still spend too much of my time sorting issues out; all day tomorrow is going to be spent sorting out some of the internal timber stud walls that are like a dogs hind leg - like you I was far too trusting of 'professionals'.  On a brighter note, I have found some stars and its them that are benefitting from my cash.

 

Keep smiling.

[ToughButterCup]

22 minutes ago, Onoff said:

[...]

Anyway, just think of the money you're SAVING on gym fees!

 

Yes. I'm fitter than I have been for a good while, hands harder than they have been for many years and my back seems to be holding up well.

 

My hips are giving notice of their intention to quit in the near future, though.

Anyway, stuff it, I'll sleep very well tonight.

Ian

[Onoff]

17 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

Yes. I'm fitter than I have been for a good while, hands harder than they have been for many years and my back seems to be holding up well.

 

My hips are giving notice of their intention to quit in the near future, though.

Anyway, stuff it, I'll sleep very well tonight.

Ian

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.arthritisresearchuk.org/~/media/Files/Arthritis-information/Conditions/2057%20Hip%20Pain%20exercises%2014-1.ashx&ved=0ahUKEwi55pmZ4evVAhXEZ1AKHUeeBI0QFgicATAR&usg=AFQjCNFbz7xBnxPrjNCn-EoQsHvqhKzfoA

[MikeSharp01]

Cripes! I guess the old adage: Keep calm and carry on.. is about all we can say. Thinking of you!

[jack]

Bollocks. Really sorry to hear that Ian.

 

Keep your pecker up - we're rooting for you. 

[MikeSharp01]

Why is my phone telling me about exercises for my hips??? Blasted @Onoff links....Maybe the bathroom pace is being slowed by time dilation caused by excessive surfing spreading links....

[SteamyTea]

Remind us Ian, why did you decide on Durisol ?

[daiking]

42 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Remind us Ian, why did you decide on Durisol ?

 

Is it too soon to make piles jokes?

[ToughButterCup]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Durisol. If an idiot uses it badly, it breaks. Just like a BMW breaks if you smash it against a wall.

 

A disaffected oaf  beat the hell out of the blocks to line them  up instead of laying them carefully in the first place, or relay them properly. When I challenged him, he stopped belting them for a few minutes.

I have video evidence of him  beating the hell out of the blocks and of me telling him not to and, subsequently when he thought I was not there, of him ignoring my instruction. He knew he was being videoed as he had had been videoed every day he came to Salamander Cottage . He just couldn't have given a toss. Thank God for @Stones advice about Brinno time lapse cameras.

 

Properly laid and handled Durisol is fine. But if  you beat the shit out of anything for long enough it will break.

When the oaf told me directly "We don't do Durisol" and refused to lay blocks to a line, I sacked him on the spot. And sacked the company the next day.

 

If Durisol was unreliable, the product would have failed long ago. There's just about nothing anyone can do about the coincidence of an absent, uncontactable MD and a disaffected, idiotic member of staff. What he did amounted to criminal damage.

 

Cost overall?   2 weeks' delay and a few hundred quid.

 

 

 

[joe90]

On 22/08/2017 at 21:29, Barney12 said:

Oh bother

 

I think like many on here I feel your pain. Devon is not renowned for its "forward thinking" and "modern methods of construction".

We've certainly had our fair share of "you're doing what?".

One local builder practically walked off site in disbelief when I tried to explain a passive slab. "It will be in a new postcode lad when the rain comes".

As for roofers, well they appear to be particularly adept in "teeth sucking" which is why in the end I went DIY. 

 

As as you say.....if you can't take a joke.

Well I am very lucky, my builder is Devon born and bred and he is very up to speed on modern practises and very interested in alternative methods, hence my post on having a good builder. Iain, so sorry to hear of your bad luck with builders.

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Durisol

"Never answer the question that is asked you. Answer that question that you wish had be asked of you" Robert McNamara

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by SteamyTea

[Stones]

13 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Durisol. If an idiot uses it badly, it breaks. Just like a BMW breaks if you smash it against a wall.

 

A disaffected oaf  beat the hell out of the blocks to line them  up instead of laying them carefully in the first place, or relay them properly. When I challenged him, he stopped belting them for a few minutes.

I have video evidence of him  beating the hell out of the blocks and of me telling him not to and, subsequently when he thought I was not there, of him ignoring my instruction. He knew he was being videoed as he had had been videoed every day he came to Salamander Cottage . He just couldn't have given a toss. Thank God for @Stones advice about Brinno time lapse cameras.

 

Properly laid and handled Durisol is fine. But if  you beat the shit out of anything for long enough it will break.

When the oaf told me directly "We don't do Durisol" and refused to lay blocks to a line, I sacked him on the spot. And sacked the company the next day.

 

If Durisol was unreliable, the product would have failed long ago. There's just about nothing anyone can do about the coincidence of an absent, uncontactable MD and a disaffected, idiotic member of staff. What he did amounted to criminal damage.

 

Cost overall?   2 weeks' delay and a few hundred quid.

 

One of the reasons I steered clear of ICF previously was the utter lack of experience that local builders had with the system, i.e. none.  As Ian says, not getting around the problem of a disinterested MD and idiotic member of staff.  I was very fortunate with our build to be able to use a contractor with a small experienced team that builds with ICF all of the time.  It's the human input that makes the difference.  

[jack]

14 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

When the oaf told me directly "We don't do Durisol"...

 

Erm, yes you do, because your employer (or the entity to which/whom you're contracted) has agreed in writing to "do" Durisol.

 

Quite aside from anything else, why would any builder,  irrespective of knowledge or experience with particular building systems, want to do anything less than the right job? Following a line is a fairly fundamental part of building, whether you're laying blockwork, building a stud wall or slating a roof!

 

Looking back at this from a few months or years in the future, the loss of time and funds will pale beside the feeling of relief that your house wasn't ultimately built by these neanderthals.

[ToughButterCup]

Moving on is the name of this game isn't it? No sooner has one issue been fettled than the next 2 sit there leering at you. 

I haven't quite lost touch with how lucky we are to be able to build. I am reminded every day by my neighbours who have been refused permission to build. It must be galling for them to see progress on the plot next to theirs. And official refusal for their own hopes. 

[Nickfromwales]

Just keep reminding yourself how much worse this could have been if you'd have clad this nuggets best efforts with the final layers of your finished home. . 

THAT would be bad, if not inconceivable, and, as jack says, make events to date pale into near insignificance. . 

Chin up me ol china mug, before this is over we'll have had a beer and a laugh about it all. ??

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

Chin up me ol china mug

Strange Welsh Cockney there

[Onoff]

27 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Strange Welsh Cockney there

 

Canterbury Tales.

[Nickfromwales]

44 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Strange Welsh Cockney there

Normally it's just "strange Welsh cock", so an improvement afaic.

 

[ToughButterCup]

On 25/08/2017 at 10:43, jack said:

[...]

Erm, yes you do, because your employer (or the entity to which/whom you're contracted) has agreed in writing to "do" Durisol.

[...]

 

Very loyal of you Jack, but what really happened was.....

 

We went on a days training course, architect, the boss and me, and weighed the job up.

 

We decided on paying  day rate because it felt more fair, but that we would review that decision weekly. Which for a time we  did.

Durisol came out and did a days training on site with the whole team. In the trainer's view some of the lads 'had it', others didn't. So far so normal.

Add into the mix a boss who, at key points decides to go away on his own - for hours and sometimes days at a time and you have a staff who are getting 'restive' . He was incommunicado. Then twice in quick succession the whole team went away for a fortnight; and on one of those trips the wind blew. (the wall down: the sole cause of the wall falling down was in my view, the exceptionally turbulent easterly.)

 

On their return, they all got a huge evidence-based bollocking from me about standards. That set teeth on edge. Because (as @SteamyTea hinted) they didn't want to live with their mistakes. 

I pointed out that I expected mistakes, and that's why they were being paid day rate. The boss promptly left the site; the lads were seething I think.

 

To hear 'We don't do Durisol' as a response  was a tipping point.

It was  three issues occurring simultaneously; the boss leaving , his '' unreachableness" the unfamiliarity of the material, and generally poor personal standards of workmanship that all worked together to get them sacked. They'd also left a job in Cornwall the night before and had got here at 0300. So, no sleep either.

 

South Lancashire does what it does, without much thought for change. Certainly no appetite for change and novelty. It's too comfortable.

Not on my cash. That rather large invoice can remain on the table, unpaid until I can be, on the basis of evidence, convinced otherwise.

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Sadly, Ian, I do not think your experience of indifferent workers and poor standards is unique to South Lancashire, or even that uncommon.  Quality has been slipping in the UK building industry for years.  Every weekday I drive past an old farm, with brick built barns and outbuildings.  At a guess it's late Victorian, with outstanding workmanship; beautiful corbelled supports for the eaves, very elegant and tidy brick arched lintels and it just illustrates that the craftsmen that built it took a real pride in their work, even if it was "just a barn".

 

The pressure to cut costs by the big players in the construction industry, the removal of proper training and apprenticeship schemes, and the general ethos that all that matters is getting paid, has made finding good people very challenging.

 

I have a theory about one reason that MBC are generally well regarded.  It's to do with what happened in Ireland during the boom.  Lots of really crap houses were put up, some so bad that they had to be demolished.  Even now Ireland is littered with "ghost developments" that will most probably never be lived in.  That changed when the crash came, and all the cowboys went out of business.  It was compounded when the Irish government introduced strict new building regulations and inspections.  Only those companies who were determined to do a good job survived, and MBC was one of them.  They came over here, and their work ethic stands out when compared to the majority of UK companies, as most here who have used them will confirm.

 

What we need is a similar way to enforce building standards, and to make sure that people have the skills needed.  That means government intervention, as happened in Ireland, I'm sure.  I doubt that our construction industry is suddenly going to transform itself unless it is forced to.