Survey or no Survey?

[Roger440]

I am well into purchasing a property at the moment.

Having got the ball rolling on mortgages, solicitors and all that other guff, I've turned my thoughts back to the actual building.

Its an approx 180-200 year old cottage with a significant modern extension (bigger than the original cottage).

Having looked at it twice, I've seen nothing to get excited about. It all seems in pretty good shape. My take, based on what I can see and what the vendors tell me,  is the extension build ran out of money towards the end, so some of the finishing work is not the best, but all seems in order.

I know a guy I have used before for surveys who was well versed in older buildings, but sadly he retired earlier this year. I asked him if he knew anyone else competent. Sadly his reply was that he was attending said chap's funeral later that week.

So, in the absence of anyone I know and trust, do I actually bother to get one done? Sure, the mortgage company will do one, but based on previous experience that won't be worth the paper it's written on.

Not doing one makes me nervous, it is a lot of money being spent, but realistically, unless it's about to fall down,  any minor trivia I would just accept. If I don't buy it, someone else will, no doubt about it. I certainly wouldn't be talking down the price as a consequence.

Any suggestions what you would do????

 

 

 

 

[PeterW]

These guys were recommended to me - had 20 minutes on the phone to Richard but due to estate agents I never got to take him up on the services but he knows his stuff. 

 

http://www.heritage-consulting.org/homebuyers-surveys

[Roundtuit]

Our last place was a listed Georgian townhouse, semi-derelict when we bought it.  We had a mortgage and structural survey which largely pointed out the bleeding obvious (i.e. It's semi-derelict), so I reckon the most valuable insight I got into the condition and potential pitfalls was f.o.c through a walk-round with a respected builder.  Saved us 20% on the purchase price...

Fortune favours the bold!  Good luck!

 

[Jeremy Harris]

I've had full structural surveys (not the pretty useless "housebuyers survey") done on three houses we've bought, but only because my employer was paying. 

Each time I went around with the surveyor and every report was comprehensive, pointing out a number of things I'd never have spotted, some minor, on one occasion some really major structural failings that were not at all obvious to me until they were pointed out (it was an old chapel conversion where the steel tie bars holding the side walls together had been removed, causing the walls to start to spread).  That last survey also showed obvious things I'd already spotted, like all the blocked underfloor vents, the elevated ground level on one side which was around 2ft above the timber floor level inside and some roof failings (which turned out to be because of the walls spreading when the ties had been removed during the conversion).  The chapel was the only one of the three we walked away from, only because the owners refused to negotiate on price in the light of the serious failings found.

Knowing what I've learned from doing up two very old houses and having followed these surveyors around, I'd not hesitate to do a survey myself now.  25 years ago there's no way I'd have purchased a 200 year old house without a full structural survey.

 

 

[Redoctober]

18 hours ago, Roger440 said:

Not doing one makes me nervous, it is a lot of money being spent, but realistically, unless it's about to fall down,  any minor trivia I would just accept. If I don't buy it, someone else will, no doubt about it. I certainly wouldn't be talking down the price as a consequence.

Any suggestions what you would do????

 

You could always make the offer conditional on the survey. In addition, you have to weigh up the cost of the survey against total renovation costs and it may well be considered    money well spent in the scheme of things !

From a personal perspective, I would seek the assurances of a survey and this would have to be factored into the overall budget. My thinking would be if I am looking to save money on the survey, then can I really afford the work needed overall?

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

PW.

[Ferdinand]

You could try asking the person selling yours for a recommendation of a surveyor, or alternately an established local estate agent after discussing that yours will be sold in the next n months.

Then you should get their best recommendation.

We actually had a full structural on ours before we sold it and gave the report to potential customers to help them not be scared :-).

On a 5000sqft 16C onwards house it cost under £500 by a surveyor who was an adviser to the National Trust. One thing he opined was that the NT would have spent 1m+ on the restoration.

Ferdinand

Edited June 2, 2016 by Ferdinand

[Roger440]

14 hours ago, Redoctober said:

You could always make the offer conditional on the survey. In addition, you have to weigh up the cost of the survey against total renovation costs and it may well be considered    money well spent in the scheme of things !

From a personal perspective, I would seek the assurances of a survey and this would have to be factored into the overall budget. My thinking would be if I am looking to save money on the survey, then can I really afford the work needed overall?

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

PW.

The offer's made! No time for hanging around for a property like this. It's not a project, and on the face of it, needs little work. But that's just my assessment.

I think you're right, I should get one done.

 

[Roger440]

19 hours ago, PeterW said:

These guys were recommended to me - had 20 minutes on the phone to Richard but due to estate agents I never got to take him up on the services but he knows his stuff. 

 

http://www.heritage-consulting.org/homebuyers-surveys

I shall give them a call. Thanks

[Roger440]

Thanks for all the words of wisdom. Much appreciated.

[Declan52]

Put it like this most people me included before they spend a hundred odd quid on a hotel room check TripAdvisor for a review to get a feel for the place . Same thing if you are buying a car even. You're going to be spending a lot of money on this place so a survey in my books is essential. Might find it's in a good state or it might turn up a lot of issues, either way I would want to know.

[Roger440]

On 1 June 2016 at 22:13, PeterW said:

These guys were recommended to me - had 20 minutes on the phone to Richard but due to estate agents I never got to take him up on the services but he knows his stuff. 

 

http://www.heritage-consulting.org/homebuyers-surveys

Whilst I don't doubt they know their stuff, they are not very business like. I'm struggling to even discuss what's required, never mind come up with a date. Must have too much work?

Does anyone have any other recommendations?

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Sadly, my experience of surveyors has been similar, in that those I've used have never seemed very business-like.  You should be able to find a local, properly qualified, structural surveyor through their professional body, the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors.  There seems to be a few websites offering to find local RICS surveyors, too, if you do a search using "Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors"

[Roger440]

Indeed I have. But I would much rather go off recommendation. And an actual understanding of old buildings.

But looking like I might have to resort to your suggestion.

[Ferdinand]

4 hours ago, JSHarris said:

Sadly, my experience of surveyors has been similar, in that those I've used have never seemed very business-like.  You should be able to find a local, properly qualified, structural surveyor through their professional body, the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors.  There seems to be a few websites offering to find local RICS surveyors, too, if you do a search using "Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors"

The RICS website has a directory iirc.

F

[Roger440]

On 01/06/2016 at 22:13, PeterW said:

These guys were recommended to me - had 20 minutes on the phone to Richard but due to estate agents I never got to take him up on the services but he knows his stuff. 

 

http://www.heritage-consulting.org/homebuyers-surveys

Well, the good news is, once we got past the hurdle of actually getting a reply to phone or email, appointment was made and man came. Clearly knows his stuff. Found some stuff i really did need to know too.   or may that should be

 

 

[PeterW]

Pleased to hear that ! Reading his blog about damp and old buildings is an eye opener - he has little respect for mortgage company surveyors ..!!

So don't keep us in suspense, what did he find ..??

[Roger440]

9 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Pleased to hear that ! Reading his blog about damp and old buildings is an eye opener - he has little respect for mortgage company surveyors ..!!

So don't keep us in suspense, what did he find ..??

Primarily just the usual stuff. Modern plaster on the walls in the old part of the house. Some modern render (part rendered) on the front wall. A bit of salt leeching from the chimney externally.

However, the prime concerns (which may be linked) were, on the extension, so 8 years old, The bricks below the DPC are rather damp. The worst area is under a down pipe off the roof, that was blocked so overspilling the gutter. But its pretty much all along the back wall, but gets better the further you go from the butter.So, may be simple, or a leak underground?

Cue the drainage system. Property, (and next door) has a septic tank. Old, discharging to river (licensed). However alarm bells rang when he saw the down pipe and kitchen waste share the same drain!!.

There is a inspection point in the garden, roughly in line with the back of the house, which had sewage in it. The fall is near non-exsistent to the tank, not the end of the world, but if its got rainwater in it, that rather buggers it up! Try as we did, we could not find the discharge into the river though.

All fixable, at a price, EXCEPT, the fact that next door, probably, is the same. ie, discharging rainwater AND sewage into the septic tank.

Got the feeling this could be tricky?

 

[PeterW]

Shared septic tank ..??

sounds like a fun one to sort if they are putting rainwater into it especially if it's going into the river as it will wash through pretty easily !

[Roger440]

3 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Shared septic tank ..??

sounds like a fun one to sort if they are putting rainwater into it especially if it's going into the river as it will wash through pretty easily !

Exactly, but the tank looked ok. But what i know about tanks is next to bugger all, apart from what ive learnt today. Steep curve!!

Accoring to the goverment page, it says if you sel your house, you HAVE to upgrade it to sewage treatment. Here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/general-binding-rules-small-sewage-discharge-to-a-surface-water

But after 3 hours on interweb, i can find nothing to support this legally. Prob ought to put up a post in the right section.

[ProDave]

I have not heard of a blanket law requiring all septic tanks to be replaced on the sale of a property.

But certainly up here, SEPA have the power to enforce a change. One of the houses in our road, the old, big house, had an old concrete septic tank (in next doors garden!!) discharging to the burn, and following a complaint and investigation, SEPA ordered them to replace it with a treatment plant, that is now located in their own garden,

It seems this action is only being taken with tanks discharging to water. I have never heard of a case of a septic tank draining to land having to be upgraded.

Perhaps this is ammunition to renegotiate the purchase price?

[Stones]

Part of the conveyancing process in Scotland is ensuring that any house (with off mains drainage) has the appropriate consent to discharge from SEPA. Seemingly you cannot conclude a sale until you have one.

[Roger440]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

I have not heard of a blanket law requiring all septic tanks to be replaced on the sale of a property.

But certainly up here, SEPA have the power to enforce a change. One of the houses in our road, the old, big house, had an old concrete septic tank (in next doors garden!!) discharging to the burn, and following a complaint and investigation, SEPA ordered them to replace it with a treatment plant, that is now located in their own garden,

IOt seems this action is only being taken with tanks discharging to water. I have never heard of a case of a septic tank draining to land having to be upgraded.

Perhaops this is amunition to re negotiate the purchase price?

It is specifically ones that discharge to water course. Discharge to soakaway/ land drain etc is unaffected. Came into force 1st Jan last year. 

[Roger440]

14 hours ago, PeterW said:

Pleased to hear that ! Reading his blog about damp and old buildings is an eye opener - he has little respect for mortgage company surveyors ..!!

So don't keep us in suspense, what did he find ..??

Probably also worth saying, i did it with him, which he encouraged. Useful learning experience too!

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, Stones said:

Part of the conveyancing process in Scotland is ensuring that any house (with off mains drainage) has the appropriate consent to discharge from SEPA. Seemingly you cannot conclude a sale until you have one.

I understand the process is simply one of registering an existing system and is pretty much a formality. When we built this house in 2003 there was no requirement to register it with SEPA.  I believe it is the same form we used to apply for their discharge permit for the new house, just a different box to tick.

[PeterW]

40 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

Probably also worth saying, i did it with him, which he encouraged. Useful learning experience too!

That's great - always useful when you can match the words on a report to the actual items they are referring to.