Zoot wood balcony job.

[zoothorn]

10 hours ago, joe90 said:

Yes @zoothorn, good progress, slow but steady 👍. I do think @Onoffsuggestion above about the end hangers being inboard and extra board on spacers is the best and neatest suggestion. Question….are you using decking boards fir the “floor”?, if so the extra board suggested could be wider and cover the end Grain of the decking boards 🤷‍♂️

Hi J, thing is my support posts for my handrails attatch to the outside: as it was with 6x4, this gave them good timber to fix to. But if I put this outer joist in.. the gap doesn't help this later  side support post fixing.

 

I'm not quite on board with the wider suggestion to cover the end grains of the deckking boards.

 

Yes these will go horizontally- across/ parralel to the ledger.

 

Thanks, zh

[zoothorn]

3 hours ago, Onoff said:

I'd still be worried about the 3 hangers under the cill not hooking over the top of the ledger. You might be able to skew a screw up from the bottom at 45deg or screw some neat plates up from underneath...

 

What way are your decking boards running?

Decking boards to run same as/ parallel to the ledger board.

 

I managed to get 2 nails in the top of the 3 centre hangers where the cill is. Just got one in each side, of each overhanging section. And put 2 extra nails in on the front each side of each too- Im fairly sure these 3 hangers ok.

 

 

[markc]

21 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Decking boards to run same as/ parallel to the ledger board.

 

I managed to get 2 nails in the top of the 3 centre hangers where the cill is. Just got one in each side, of each overhanging section. And put 2 extra nails in on the front each side of each too- Im fairly sure these 3 hangers ok.

 

 

Hangers will be fine even just face nailed, the hanger would tear before a hanger nail would shear.

[zoothorn]

This is my main bugbear. And the only "problem" to solve..

 

The 2 main pillars, are just shy of 7ft. Ideally I needed 8ft, to cut to size.  So a compromised pillar height of max 710mm is only possible = I'm 70mm short of the ground.

So I need to build two "mini support pads". And furthermore at the exact point my ground slopes steeply down too. Urgh (the last issue, due to the foot-too-low build issue plaguing me still).

 

In this pic you can see the height of the slope down. From drive it's good 1.5ft ( 1/2 a ft only.....  is what my plan said it should've been! ).

 

And the spirit level is 1200mm long: the exact pillar's furthest point.

 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

This is more accurate.. the red mark on the spirit level, is the pillar base mark.

 

Pink line shows slope.

 

Zh

 

[joe90]

Zoot why don’t you build two concrete pads, into the ground and 100mm above ground level with a bit of bar sticking up, drill hole in the bottom of the post and it won’t move.

[Onoff]

2 of these? 

 

 

Galvanised Concrete in"U" Shape Post Support Heavy Duty for 150mm / 6" Inch Posts https://amzn.eu/d/16tAkXe

[Pocster]

[zoothorn]

Hangers done, end ones as per Onoff idea.

 

Thanks, zh

 

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

2 of these? 

 

 

Galvanised Concrete in"U" Shape Post Support Heavy Duty for 150mm / 6" Inch Posts https://amzn.eu/d/16tAkXe

This is kinda similar on my 'mericun "Deck build" youtube video Im basing the build on.

 

What he did, was have a 6" or so round concreted pad hard, with a rebar midpoint set into it, sticking up. Drilled a hole for it in centre btm of post. Etc.

 

Difference maybe thus; his has preset concrete pad, & I think your idea would be get both pillars set level & plumb.. & THEN maybe pour the concrete to set around the pillars spikes-?
 

Great help as always, zoot

[zoothorn]

2 hours ago, joe90 said:

Zoot why don’t you build two concrete pads, into the ground and 100mm above ground level with a bit of bar sticking up, drill hole in the bottom of the post and it won’t move.

Hi J. 
 

This idea is as per my 'mericun youtube video. I think 2 things seem tricky tho?

 

1) how do I possibly get that pad, at exactly the right height prior to putting post on?
2) I have a galv shoe thing on my csbin pillar btms.. but seems to me like the bases will rot.. wouldn't this idea be the same?
3) I have the additional issue of where my red line is/ the base of the post ( in the photo above).. is above the ground: so I need to pour the concrete into something, which sits both in -&- sticks up/ out 80mm proud of the ground.

 

Thanks, zoot
 

As

Edited August 12, 2022 by zoothorn

[Onoff]

Buy two cheap builders buckets, the 99p jobs, cut the bottom out with a jigsaw. Instant round pad formed. 

 

Dig holes, check some rubble in the base and whack it down. Drop the bucket in and set it level. Fill with concrete. Cut the bucket off when set.

 

6 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

1) how do I possibly get that pad, at exactly the right height prior to putting post on?

 

Use that cheap laser I linked you to way back that you then went out and bought as it was such a good deal 😂

 

Seriously now...

 

Use that cheap laser I linked you to way back that you then went out and bought as it was such a good deal 😂😂

 

 

[zoothorn]

@Onoff no I don't have a laser thing. Not so cheap, & a week me figuring it out.

 

Bucket idea understood. Now Peter's original idea was a scaffold section, inserted in pillar base, & these two pillars then get into place & braced. Level, plumb etc. Then the concrete is put in to set around the pole. I think this was  the idea.

 

The scaffold pole tho, compared to a rebar, is alot more for me to try & do. How do I cut it, & where do even I source a 1/4 of a pole from? Etc.

 

The idea of J90's is simplest, & so maybe easiest for me. It tallies with my video clip. Certainly cheapest. Caveat being tho: the pillar sits in water, like my cabin pillars do in their shoes. I wonder if I can do this idea.. but have a standoff something between pillar & concrete?

 

Thanks, zoot

 

 

[joe90]

No need to worry about height of concrete pad as long as it’s above the 70mm you are short of. (Why I said 100mm) Bung the post on top and cut it off where necessary to match the rest of the platform! The shoe is a great idea, stops the post rotting in the ground. 

[zoothorn]

Chaps, I'm wondering if I can crack on trying to get the outer 3x walls of the frame up.. even if perched upon two temporary pillars.

 

Is this the next step I wonder? I feel a bit stuck not knowing what next to do.

 

If I can ( somehow, alone ) get the 3 perimeter frame sections joined to my ledger, I can continue on with the joists. And get it level.. then I can determine exactly where my concrete pads are to go.

 

If I fix my two outer sides, to my front piece with its hangers on... is there any way I can get it up & join to my ledger? I think it just needs a temporary support ( say two vertical timbers) to safely carry on.

 

Thanks, zoot

[zoothorn]

3 minutes ago, joe90 said:

No need to worry about height of concrete pad as long as it’s above the 70mm you are short of. (Why I said 100mm) Bung the post on top and cut it off where necessary to match the rest of the platform! The shoe is a great idea, stops the post rotting in the ground. 

Ok understand the dims there.

 

Shoe a good idea? I wasn't suggesting it.. the opposite in fact, as all I can see is my cabin pillars sit in these shoes, in a puddle of standing water. Shoes mean wet pillar bases.. I think. The same caveat with sitting the posts, rebar between, onto the concrete, surely-?

 

Thanks, zoot

[joe90]

I think this depends on a few things, are the posts going all the way up to the handrail? (I would, makes the handrail a lot stronger). How are you going to fix the 3 sides to the posts?

[joe90]

1 minute ago, zoothorn said:

Ok understand the dims there.

 

Shoe a good idea? I wasn't suggesting it.. the opposite in fact, as all I can see is my cabin pillars sit in these shoes, in a puddle of standing water. Shoes mean wet pillar bases.. I think. The same caveat with sitting the posts, rebar between, onto the concrete, surely-?

 

Thanks, zoot

Better to have timber, even  if temporary wet they can dry out in between, in the ground they are permanently damp..

[zoothorn]

11 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I think this depends on a few things, are the posts going all the way up to the handrail? (I would, makes the handrail a lot stronger). How are you going to fix the 3 sides to the posts?

No posts are only 7ft high. Design is 1) make deck, 2) add on support posts for handrails. Simplest this way.

 

Can you just help here in the meantime tho: I have my ledger up, my front opposite " ledger" on the ground all hangers put on. I have my 2 outer sides cut.

 

If I fix on my sides, to my front "ledger" ( on the ground). Then I have 3 sides of my rectangle, ready to fix to my ledger.

 

Can I proceed... somehow to fix theses two sections together? On my own?

[markc]

@zoothorn put the three pieces together, rest ends into hangers on Ledger, get 1 or two timbers ready and a few nails.

lift outer ledger up to roughly right height (preferably a bit low), temporarily nail a leg to hold it up.

stick a nail in hangers near wall, pack outer up to correct position with temp legs.

 

[Onoff]

46 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

The scaffold pole tho, compared to a rebar, is alot more for me to try & do. How do I cut it, & where do even I source a 1/4 of a pole from? Etc.

 

I do believe this was gone over in great detail before when a cheap 50mm flat wood bit was proposed (and probably even linked). This to drill up the centre of each 6"x6" post. 

 

Scaffold poles...erm a local scaffold will have off cuts lying around. They cut poles down on site with gay abandon and bin the off cuts. Ditto someone doing a self build and so on. 

 

Here for instance:

 

BLISS Scaffolding LTD · Aberystwyth SY23 4EB, United Kingdom

 

Pretty sure if you asked nicely a nice hairy scaffolder would slip you a length...

 

Personally I'd want to bear over as much of the bottom of the 6"x6" with any supporting plate and reduce point loading. I'd fear spitting the post over time if using say a bit of re-bar. Less so with a scaffold tube. 

 

If you do shove anything up the end of the timber I'd make sure it's at least galvanised and paint the end with some zinc rich paint.

[zoothorn]

46 minutes ago, markc said:

@zoothorn put the three pieces together, rest ends into hangers on Ledger, get 1 or two timbers ready and a few nails.

lift outer ledger up to roughly right height (preferably a bit low), temporarily nail a leg to hold it up.

stick a nail in hangers near wall, pack outer up to correct position with temp legs.

 

Hi markc.

 

I think I get the rough idea. Ive fixed my 3 pieces together.. but as its a shallow balcony, lifting the two side ends up & into the ledger end hangers, I can't quite see how I can do it.

 

If it was a 2m depth balcony I could get the 3 sided beast to touch the ledger hangers. But 1100mm means its trickier.

[zoothorn]

18 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

I do believe this was gone over in great detail before when a cheap 50mm flat wood bit was proposed (and probably even linked). This to drill up the centre of each 6"x6" post. 

 

Scaffold poles...erm a local scaffold will have off cuts lying around. They cut poles down on site with gay abandon and bin the off cuts. Ditto someone doing a self build and so on. 

 

Here for instance:

 

BLISS Scaffolding LTD · Aberystwyth SY23 4EB, United Kingdom

 

Pretty sure if you asked nicely a nice hairy scaffolder would slip you a length...

 

Personally I'd want to bear over as much of the bottom of the 6"x6" with any supporting plate and reduce point loading. I'd fear spitting the post over time if using say a bit of re-bar. Less so with a scaffold tube. 

 

If you do shove anything up the end of the timber I'd make sure it's at least galvanised and paint the end with some zinc rich paint.

Hi Onoff. Yes I know this idea was gone over in detail, but it's the most difficult for me. There are other ways to consider. Easiest is the single rebar. Mid- easiest is your brackets idea.

Welsh scaffolders, in this heat, to an english pig asking a favour.. is not a recipe for success tbh. Id be left to cut it.. & I can't change disc on my grinder for a metal slitting disc.. too stiff to undo.

 

If I can just get this frame up first, things will flow from there, & the way to go will be clearer re. pillar base.

 

Can you think of a way I could get this up in the meantime?

 

 

[Onoff]

27 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Hi Onoff. Yes I know this idea was gone over in detail, but it's the most difficult for me. There are other ways to consider. Easiest is the single rebar. Mid- easiest is your brackets idea.

Welsh scaffolders, in this heat, to an english pig asking a favour.. is not a recipe for success tbh. Id be left to cut it.. & I can't change disc on my grinder for a metal slitting disc.. too stiff to undo.

 

If I can just get this frame up first, things will flow from there, & the way to go will be clearer re. pillar base.

 

Can you think of a way I could get this up in the meantime?

 

 

 

Haul it up with a rope each end looped over the ledger. Get the ends in the joist hangers as close as. Then lever up from the front with a clothes prop esque pole...maybe.

[zoothorn]

Woohoo!