davejura Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 We have finally started our build and so far have the foundation walls in place and are ready to fit the beam and block flooring. I have just been pricing up the attic trusses and windows and in all honesty got a bit of a fright! I'm now considering changing the trusses to regular ones and doing away with the potential for future expansion (it was just marked on the original plans as storage). I'm just wondering if we would have to go back to full planning with this, or would we possibly get away with an NMA? House is 2 storey on a sloping site, so first floor is main living area. Houses in the road are all mixed regarding styles and roof heights, so can't see any issues with planning regarding the change. Appreciate any thoughts or advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 Suppose the first question is did you get single quote or multiple. We have Posi rafter (about 250m2 floor area) and our garage (60m2 floor area) has normal ones both came Pasquale in Inverness neither were too much of a shock price wise. Pasquale redid all the structural calcs, sent them to the structural engineer to approve. Which he did. I've not done anything more than that. Our original roof trusses on the house were all in 250x45 solid wood and that was super expensive. Both materials and labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 Plus 1 with above I used Pasquil last time and tried them again this time and two others also Pasquil are nearly double The other two have reduced there quotes due to falling timber prices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davejura Posted February 26, 2022 Author Share Posted February 26, 2022 It's not just the trusses. There are 3 x Velux windows, some fancy glazing in the gable which is expensive, a spandrel panel, glulam beams, extra insulation costs, flooring, larger heat pump to allow for the extra floor and that's all before we create any rooms up there. Just exploring options at the moment before we break the bank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 Have a serious look at re designing the roof as a cut roof suspended on a ridge beam without using trusses of any sort, and doing that as a warm roof. It is what we did and I maintain was one of the best design decisions. It puts the entire roof inside the heated and air tight space with no trusses intruding anywhere, is easy to detail well. It then either gives you a warm dry roof space for storage or an easy space to convert later for accommodation. Obviously use floor joists capable of taking a proper load. Apart from getting the ridge beam made, everything else is standard timbers that any decent joiner can fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 53 minutes ago, ProDave said: Apart from getting the ridge beam made, everything else is standard timbers A timber ridge beam or steel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 Just now, saveasteading said: A timber ridge beam or steel? In my case a timber Kerto beam, which for the same strength is smaller than a Glulam. It could also be done with steel. Here is an idea of the nice open roof structure you get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 I would explore if you really need to up the size of the heat pump, as the heat downstairs will go a long way to fulfill the heating requirements of that space. Simplify the glazing design or don't install any, will help with the heat losses. Do you need a spandrel panel, could it stick built on site? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 1 hour ago, ProDave said: a timber Kerto beam I have used Kerto a lot, and like it. Much prettier and easier to nail into than steel. Also pretty well fire-proof. For our rebuild section, our Engineer has introduced a ridge beam, which I am ok with, but as a laminated section, 405 x 165, so a very heavy section, but presumably properly calculated. I am assuming these are ordered to the span plus a lap for the joint, then joiner makes the scarfe on site. Do you think kerto might be better value than laminated ? If so then now is may last chance to suggest it before submission. Is there an Inverness supplier you know of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 I think it was size that decided ours, GluLam would have been a very big beam, Kerto was smaller for the same strength. We never discussed price. But then when the builder came to buy it, we ended up with a wider Kerto than was specified as that was all they could get. Ours came over length and was cut to length on site. Better than getting your measurements wrong and it ending up a bit short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 Our glulams came from plasqual not sure of the right spelling, but in Inverness. Ours are a similar size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 2 hours ago, ProDave said: a timber Kerto beam Just found an online estimator, which shows that this beam in glulam is £150/m. x 40m including hips and valleys = £6,000 which is miles over budget. I designed the roof as A frames according to the standard Scottish method, and it all works in 240 x 100 C24. The Engineers possibly can't do that and go to first principles, and add £5,000 to the project, but say, 'look you don't need roof ties'. If a C24 timber it would be £30/m, but perhaps more for cutting to order and making even bigger. Bolt 2 side by side? The few Engineers I used after I moved totally into contracting were chosen because they accepted feedback on real life value. I don't know these people well enough to know how they will respond, although I should say they have accepted some of our 'feedback'. The cost increases in this and other areas, dwarf their fee, but they do not seem keen on any more work in iterating the best design. It annoys me most I suppose because I know this is slack, and I am used to resolving such issues, but I don't have a Scottish 'ticket' , otherwise I might let it run and later discuss with the Building Officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davejura Posted March 3, 2022 Author Share Posted March 3, 2022 Thanks folks. Pasquall working on it at the moment. One option could possibly be to keep the attic space as cold for the time being and just use 350mm of mineral wool. Would be a substantial saving and could convert it properly once we have money and sanity again! We may also simplify some of the glazing. A spandrel panel is also mentioned on the plans which the agent at Pasquall doesn't quite understand why! I'll maybe try and post some of the drawings at the weekend for comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 14 minutes ago, davejura said: I'll maybe try and post some of the drawings at the weekend for comments. Hiya. Yes if you can post some drawings then folk will chip in with value added comments. The main thing is to post so folk can see the roof space, plan view and sections and where the load bearing walls are below. You probably have plenty options but to get some practical SE type input then the drawings are required. Also let folk know if this is your "forever home". There is probably lots you can do at this stage so now is the time! maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davejura Posted March 14, 2022 Author Share Posted March 14, 2022 Here's a couple of my plans. House is on a sloping site and is "upside down". Views are from the garden elevation side which is not seen from the road. AL(00)001_ upper-plan.pdf AL(00)002_lower-plan.pdf AL(00)201_garden elevation.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davejura Posted March 14, 2022 Author Share Posted March 14, 2022 To save money, we are seriously thinking of making the attic space "cold" for the time being. We are also thinking of changing the gable design to lose some of the glass. The sliding doors and glass panel above make up over 50% of the glazing cost! I've attached a photo of a local new extension which is a similar size to our gable (minus the ground floor!) and would hopefully save a fair bit whilst still looking good. I'd be interested in peoples thoughts. I can post more drawings tomorrow if anyone is interested! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbiniho Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 i have built/worked on several houses where the client hasnt had the money right away to complete the upstairs, they have fitted attic trusses but just left it bare, the key thing is to construct the structure it as if you are going to finish it and just fit infill panels where the windows are going to go and clad/roof over them, this means that when the time comes that you can afford it you simply just cut out the infill panel and fit the windows and there will be no structural alterations, the area where the stairs goes usually just becomes a very large cupboard until the time to convert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 On 26/02/2022 at 13:45, saveasteading said: Just found an online estimator, which shows that this beam in glulam is £150/m. My mistake: this is for birch or some-such pretty beam. I had not noticed that there is a tick-box for other timbers, and spruce is very much cheaper. I'm sure the joiner will know but for my interest, does the scarfe joint have to be central above the support post/wall ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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