gravelrash Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Need to get flat roof installed on new build -160m2 with parapet to 3 sides and scaffolded. I will be supplying OSB Deck and bonded Tapered Insulation. Contractor supplying vcl, EPDM and necessary glues plus labour to lay deck, insulation, board top of parapets then lay EPDM. had a couple of prices which are above 25000 for there side of the job...if I include cost of insulation and osb that brings cost to over £34000.. Based in Leeds so not London rates...contractors materials possibly 5000? so 20,000 in labour which both contractors said straight forward job, no penetrations...4/5 days 3 man team. Is this general price now a days? or is there some leg pulling going on. How much are others paying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 who's supplying the scaffold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenki Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Permaroof- Derby, who held training courses suggested a fitting cost or around £50/ £60 /SM+vat. this would be the cost of rubber / trims / adhesives. if there are lanterns etc, then that would rise. this cost would be just laying rubber from a finished deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Ours (broadly comparable build up) £4600 for 20 m sq all in three years ago. Yours 8 times bigger, projected to be £34000. Certainly not a thief ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravelrash Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 scaffold at my cost. I asked guy for breakdown of cost and material brands. he has just come back with 7000 for materials and 18000 labour...so 6 guys for a week at 3000 a pop or 12 guys at 1500 or 18 guys at 1000.....general self employed trade rates are about 1000/week around Leeds. so 18 guys should have the job done in a day... at 200/day per man is 3600 total labour....I have that warm feeling running down my back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makie Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Get some more quotes if you're not happy with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonner Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 +1 always get at least three quotes for a job like this. This guy may not be really interested and pricing himself out (doesn’t make him a robber though). Find someone who wants the job and you should get a better price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makie Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Also if I ever get asked for a breakdown of costs I tell them to take it or leave it. I don't need to justify prices to anyone. You either like it or don't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Everyone is at it Just ordered 7000 Weinerberger FB Ive managed to get them at £610 per 1000 As a merchant which I have an account with has a 100000 to feed a major house builder and will let us take 700 of there’s No more till December Just looking on eBay see if I could get the odd pack should I run short Found a pack straight away £1900 Per 1000 Nice Mark up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makeitstop Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 1 hour ago, makie said: Also if I ever get asked for a breakdown of costs I tell them to take it or leave it. I don't need to justify prices to anyone. You either like it or don't. I have to admit, that if any contractor I was considering for a job gave me the "take it or leave it" approach, it would be the last thing I listened to him tell me. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoelliott Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Makeitstop said: I have to admit, that if any contractor I was considering for a job gave me the "take it or leave it" approach, it would be the last thing I listened to him tell me. I agree 100%, there is nothing wrong with asking for this. At the moment I think the scales are very much tipped in the tradesman favor as in they can "choose" what jobs they want to take on. I suspect that will inevitably change in time and there will be competition for work once again. Edited February 2, 2022 by steveoelliott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravelrash Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 have asked over a dozen for prices...a few have no real training when you interrogate there knowledge ( 2 suggested caberboard instead of osb ...'as it is not affected by rain'...feckless idiots!!), others admitted job too big or only do fibreglass. World has gone to shit with poor skills and overpricing.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtop Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 About what we paid. The biggest cost is the epdm, we had the fleece backed stuff that costs a lot more but is very heavy duty. I was happy with the end result Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 @gravelrash are you mistaking day rate of a tradesman to the price a company would charge. If you get 2-3 guys at£200 a day who is supplying the warranty. As a company I supplied labour and made 60% for the company and 40% went out in labour, so for instance a £100 job would entail £40 labour and£60 for the company to cover everything, pensions, insurance, trucks, tools, fuel. Everything. So looking at your job 6 guys for a week at £1000 each wages plus £9000 for the company comes in at £15000 labour. Not saying anything about your job, but that’s how I priced things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makie Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 18 hours ago, Makeitstop said: I have to admit, that if any contractor I was considering for a job gave me the "take it or leave it" approach, it would be the last thing I listened to him tell me. Why should we do breakdowns though? We price as we feel necessary, if you don't like the price then just ask someone else. Like @Russell griffiths has said, there is more to think about in a job than just labour and materials. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickie Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 hour ago, makie said: Why should we do breakdowns though? We price as we feel necessary, if you don't like the price then just ask someone else. Like @Russell griffiths has said, there is more to think about in a job than just labour and materials. +1. Try asking for a breakdown of the price of ingredients next time you go for a meal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobAJob Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, makie said: Why should we do breakdowns though? We price as we feel necessary, if you don't like the price then just ask someone else. Like @Russell griffiths has said, there is more to think about in a job than just labour and materials. Because it provides a bit of transparency to the process. People expect you to build some overheads and prices into your prices. I think builders don't like to do it because it allows comparisons to be made between contractors' prices. However, there are ways to breakdown your prices so that it's not totally obvious what your rates are and you can also build a bit of contingency into your prices to cover unforseen costs or overruns. If the overruns don't happen then the contingency turns into profit. Edited February 2, 2022 by BobAJob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, BobAJob said: People expect you to build some overheads and prices into your prices. I don't think they do, or not the realistic amount anyway, and so the game starts of building waste, plant, overheads etc into the rates, and showing a profit you think the client will accept. A game and a waste of time and resources. Then if the client compares rates they may not make sense. It is even worse on bigger jobs where the client has a QS who has to justify their fee, and existence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravelrash Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 I asked for a breakdown of materials to identify the products used as well as identifying the labour cost. I understand larger businesses have labour costs, overheads etc, but you don't expect them to be greedy on the profit margins...20% was a good profit in the 80s/90s and even this was seen as high by other countries - and that is why British companies are bought up by foreign investors! Now they seem to have gone well beyond 20% which causes the self employed small businesses to follow. also you will find Guarantees/warranties come free to the larger installers backed from the manufacturers as long as they are registered suppliers/installers (which also gives them a lower cost purchase) ...they then have the cheek to try and sell further insurance backed warranties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 It is worth bearing in mind that producing a quote is not free. If a quote costs £250 to produce and 1 in 4 lead to an order, they need to charge an extra £1,000 to cover this. Once they get the order there are load of preliminary and management costs. Risk assessments, method statements, insurances, training, office admin, accounts, QS all add up. The 3 quotes method is a reasonable way judge what the job is worth. I only push for a breakdown for larger jobs where I need to work out stage payments and it would be broken down by task or milestone rather than labour and materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravelrash Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 When the cost of demolition, clearance, digging out and removal of 160m3, drainage inc twin pump sewage station, 90t hardcore, insulated foundation, 30m3 of concrete, power floated, then 3500blocks built to 3.15m wall height, roof joists and including labour at £14500 comes to £38000 then £34000 for the roof build up is hard to swallow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 go on the 1 day edpm course and do it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravelrash Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 unfortunately I have severe heart failure and heavy work is out of the question...and at an age where all my friends are knackered as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makeitstop Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 5 hours ago, Mr Punter said: It is worth bearing in mind that producing a quote is not free. If a quote costs £250 to produce and 1 in 4 lead to an order, they need to charge an extra £1,000 to cover this. Once they get the order there are load of preliminary and management costs. Risk assessments, method statements, insurances, training, office admin, accounts, QS all add up. The 3 quotes method is a reasonable way judge what the job is worth. I only push for a breakdown for larger jobs where I need to work out stage payments and it would be broken down by task or milestone rather than labour and materials. Sorry, I ain't getting it. So a contractor, that say incurrs a cost of £250 for a job quote, but only gets one from four jobs they quote on, then has to charge an additional £1000 to cover that "apparent" quote time cost. So who is it that pays the £1000? Is this whacked onto the next person that says yes? I'm assuming you mean something different, but I'm unsure what exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 12 minutes ago, Makeitstop said: Sorry, I ain't getting it. So a contractor, that say incurrs a cost of £250 for a job quote, but only gets one from four jobs they quote on, then has to charge an additional £1000 to cover that "apparent" quote time cost. So who is it that pays the £1000? Is this whacked onto the next person that says yes? I'm assuming you mean something different, but I'm unsure what exactly. Providing quotes costs money. Suppliers get their money from customers. What ain't you getting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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