TonyT Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 1 hour ago, epsilonGreedy said: The 3.5kw product you quote is a suspiciously small package for the claimed capacity, I note they claim to have developed their own variation of the lithium battery compound. This leads to two possibilities, either you have revealed the breaking wave of a new generation of battery technology or you have linked to some eBay snake oil merchant. The following lithium battery review gives a better indication of the cost of mainstream lithium batteries. https://www.pbo.co.uk/gear/lithium-batteries-for-boats-reviewed-12-of-the-best-lithium-boat-batteries-tested-62244 These have been out for years. favoured by many on the old Navitron forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, ProDave said: Does someone make a system where you have a large, say 10kWp solar PV array, connected to batteries, then an inverter, with the inverter output limited to 3.68kW? That would allow the over sized array to charge the batteries during the day and discharge over a longer period at the maximum G98 rate, thus allowing a larger array to be (loosely) grid connected. The nearest I know of (I've not researched extensivley) is SolarEdge SE3680H can be oversized to 5700kWp of panels, and supports a DC-coupled battery. Solax have a similar offering X1-HYBRID-3.7T https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/solax/solax-x1-hybrid-3.7-triplepower https://www.solaxpower.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/X1-hybrid-datasheet-1.pdf Edited January 6, 2022 by joth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 55 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: of poorly unregulated PV caused a 3 GW nuclear power station to go off line. "3GW" ? We won't have one that large until 2026 when Hinckley C comes online. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_the_United_Kingdom#Operating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 18 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: "3GW" ? We won't have one that large until 2026 when Hinckley C comes online. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_the_United_Kingdom#Operating No need to be smugly and nitpicky over a general concept you have only just discovered. Makes you act like a teenage WOKE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLPinxit Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 2 hours ago, ProDave said: Does someone make a system where you have a large, say 10kWp solar PV array, connected to batteries, then an inverter, with the inverter output limited to 3.68kW? That would allow the over sized array to charge the batteries during the day and discharge over a longer period at the maximum G98 rate, thus allowing a larger array to be (loosely) grid connected. I seem to recall an episode of 'Fully Charged' in which they installed a second Tesla Powerwall but had to upgrade to a 3 phase supply first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, TonyT said: These have been out for years. favoured by many on the old Navitron forum Sorry but something does not add up, a competitive market should establish a sane price range over a period of time. A trusted name like Victron sells at £833 per kWh of headline lithium capacity. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Victron-Energy-LiFePO4-Battery-12-8V-100Ah-Smart-BAT512110610-/253949300476?mkcid=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338700537&toolid=10001&customid=1275_-1_54741006 Your example sells at £386 per kWh and includes fancy 19" computer rack mount packaging plus battery management control circuitry. From a sizing point of view it will be necessary to allow of 10% inverter loss and then add another 20% because 80% discharge is generally accepted as the deepest state of discharge that is considered desirable. For the OP and the 35kWh requirement this implies 46 kWh of installed lithium capacity = £886 x 46 = £38k + a very large inverter + plus charge management gubbins + a sizable plant room. Call it £45k depreciated over 12 years = £3750 depreciation per year. Edited January 6, 2022 by epsilonGreedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 29 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: No need to be smugly and nitpicky over a general concept you have only just discovered. Makes you act like a teenage WOKE. Says the man who posts 20 to 30 times a month claiming outrageous miscapitalisation of KwH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 4 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: Says the man who posts 20 to 30 times a month claiming outrageous miscapitalisation of KwH. Yes, and most of them are your errors (amongst many others). But then you think that a word can have an polar opposite meaning when it suits your fantasy argument, you even disagree with people that agree with you. Bet you were fun to teach at school, held up the whole class I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 1 hour ago, SteamyTea said: Yes, and most of them are your errors (amongst many others). I stopped mis capitalizing kWh about 2 months ago but you still hunt down same error by others usually within hours. It is most odd behaviour by someone who reacts badly when corrected over a more substantial factual error. Are you distantly related to James Watt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Just now, epsilonGreedy said: I stopped mis capitalizing kWh about 2 months ago but you still hunt down same error by others usually within hours. It is most odd behaviour by someone who reacts badly when corrected over a more substantial factual error. Are you distantly related to James Watt? You can get treatment for Asperger's syndrome if you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Two BH members knocking lumps of one another: how about helping @CotswoldDoItUpper instead ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, epsilonGreedy said: Sorry but something does not add up, a competitive market should establish a sane price range over a period of time. A trusted name like Victron sells at £833 per kWh of headline lithium capacity. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Victron-Energy-LiFePO4-Battery-12-8V-100Ah-Smart-BAT512110610-/253949300476?mkcid=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338700537&toolid=10001&customid=1275_-1_54741006 Your example sells at £386 per kWh and includes fancy 19" computer rack mount packaging plus battery management control circuitry. From a sizing point of view it will be necessary to allow of 10% inverter loss and then add another 20% because 80% discharge is generally accepted as the deepest state of discharge that is considered desirable. For the OP and the 35kWh requirement this implies 46 kWh of installed lithium capacity = £886 x 46 = £38k + a very large inverter + plus charge management gubbins + a sizable plant room. Call it £45k depreciated over 12 years = £3750 depreciation per year. Ok just trying to point you towards an alternative, it’s not an issue if you want to buy a more expensive version, your link is for a 12 volt version, mine is for 48volt. Edited January 6, 2022 by TonyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOE187 Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Here is a battery looking competitively priced!! 48v 6000 cycles claimed Would like other peoples thoughts? https://voltaconsolar.com/batteries/lithium-ion/lithium-battery-100ah-5120wh-48v.html?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIypHIlLur9AIVS-J3Ch3PAgQcEAQYAyABEgLPsvD_BwE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 41 minutes ago, TonyT said: Ok just trying to point you towards an alternative, it’s not an issue if you want to buy a more expensive version, your link is for a 12 volt version, mine is for 48volt. Boat owners particularly Americans often create higher voltage battery banks by connecting some batteries in series to create a 24v boat system out of 12 volt batteries. I think with some planning it is possible to config a single battery bank for both 12 volt and 24 volt outlets. At the end of the day were are just buying kW hours of battery capacity with various cell configs to achieve different output voltages at the terminals. One thing is becoming clear to me is that boat owners and self builders have a different perspective on the technology. Boat owners have been living offgrid for decades and expect to create a solution onboard from the individual components whereas self builders view offgrid battery power as a turnkey product. I came to realize after living on boats for months over many years that £0.21 for a kW hour of mains power available 24x7 at any time of year with zero generator noise is phenomenally good value compared to the alternatives. The following video shows how a boat owner created a Lithium offgrid solution ( their travel videos are more interesting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 38 minutes ago, JOE187 said: Here is a battery looking competitively priced!! 48v 6000 cycles claimed Would like other peoples thoughts? https://voltaconsolar.com/batteries/lithium-ion/lithium-battery-100ah-5120wh-48v.html?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIypHIlLur9AIVS-J3Ch3PAgQcEAQYAyABEgLPsvD_BwE The unqualified "6000" cycles is meaningless. The Victron battery link I provided earlier has a properly specified definition of expected cycles, they need to do this because they sell to a more discerning market. VOLTAGE AND CAPACITY Nominal voltage 12,8V Nominal capacity @ 25°C 100Ah Nominal capacity @ 0°C 80Ah Nominal capacity @ -20°C 50Ah Nominal energy @ 25°C 1280Wh CYCLE LIFE (capacity ≥ 80% of nominal) 80% DoD 2500 cycles 70% DoD 3000 cycles 50% DoD 5000 cycles DISCHARGE Maximum continuous discharge current 200A Recommended continuous discharge current ≤100A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 18 hours ago, ToughButterCup said: Two BH members knocking lumps of one another: how about helping How irritating, when people can't be bothered to read what has been said to help. About what I expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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