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Onoff

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I ran the pillar drill that starts fine. Readings:

 

                OFF.        FWD       REV

R1- S2    430         430         390

S2 - T3    430        430         430

R1 - T3        0         450        460

 

R1- E         0         450        460

S2 - E    430         430        435

T3 - E        0              0            0

 

 

Edited by Onoff
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A few random pics inside the phase converter. Bfo trannie in there and lots of caps. Incoming L&N appear to go to the transformer and take 230V up to ""415" out on the brown.

 

IMG_20211017_150623954.thumb.jpg.13e5793f0c6ffccf329a4e549b1e75f4.jpg

 

IMG_20211017_150638911.thumb.jpg.a9b32ce834cdf29c84341ea980f0deb2.jpg

 

IMG_20211017_150647988.thumb.jpg.e103fd849553f89c5643119e212ed0fc.jpg

 

Across the red and black to the transformer 230V. Out on the brown 430V.

 

IMG_20211017_150658121.thumb.jpg.6d3bfb1ba3d139c5cc83dd79f3f66b51.jpg

 

IMG_20211017_150708861.thumb.jpg.72ad77701d200dd1b23d3b4186daf826.jpg

 

IMG_20211017_150719830.thumb.jpg.741e04cb3e8ec5578cbe6d8d0e008934.jpg

 

Measuring from a wall socket between N or E to the phase converter outputs.

 

IMG_20211017_144521885.thumb.jpg.08c6a631ddf8a4a9b75c21750bc91118.jpg

 

One phase to E or N. Circa 400V.

 

IMG_20211017_144544559.thumb.jpg.2a4b2f2f771acc3b85d3ba16e78c487b.jpg

 

IMG_20211017_144550337.thumb.jpg.337471213e5048e678b39637acd8e674.jpg

 

Other two phases to E or N at the socket, zero volts.

 

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7 minutes ago, TonyT said:

The inside looks well built.

 

I would safely discharge the capacitors and measure the rating, or just replace as just like humans they get old and tired!

 

Do you think a duff cap(s) could be why I'm getting this unexpected 430V to earth?

 

Debating dropping any control voltage to either 42 or 48V. I've 400v trannies to do both. 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, TonyT said:

430 volt toneart is normal, measure any live/line voltage to earth and you will get the same as you would measuring to neutral 

Is that because it is a converter i.e. the capacitors are charged up to around that voltage?

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14 minutes ago, TonyT said:

430 volt toneart is normal, measure any live/line voltage to earth and you will get the same as you would measuring to neutral 

 

?

 

Whenever I measure a 3P supply I look for 400V between any two phases then 230V any phase to neutral or any phase to earth. 

 

How do you reckon some of these machines are starting with phase 3 down? 

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5 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

?

 

Whenever I measure a 3P supply I look for 400V between any two phases then 230V any phase to neutral or any phase to earth. 

 

How do you reckon some of these machines are starting with phase 3 down? 

Must be the type of motor,

may have a built in capacitor?  Would have to get in there with my own meter to me sure.

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2 minutes ago, TonyT said:


 

John ward is good at explaining  things 

 

 

 

Thanks, but again it's always been 400V between phases, 230V phase to neutral or phase to earth.

 

Sorry, I don't understand you saying 400V phase to neutral or phase to earth is normal.

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13 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Must be the type of motor,

may have a built in capacitor?  Would have to get in there with my own meter to me sure.

 

It's been running  and still runs, all different 3P machines. Mill, pillar drill, donkey saw etc.

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13 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Thanks, but again it's always been 400V between phases, 230V phase to neutral or phase to earth.

 

Sorry, I don't understand you saying 400V phase to neutral or phase to earth is normal.

image.png.b0ce4706aa70701254625bfa3271bca2.png

 

neutral and earth are joined together so effectively the same when putting voltmeter on line to earth

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53 minutes ago, TonyT said:

image.png.b0ce4706aa70701254625bfa3271bca2.png

 

neutral and earth are joined together so effectively the same when putting voltmeter on line to earth

 

You haven't answered my question. I'm taking it you think it normal to see 400V phase to neutral or phase to earth.

 

Sorry, I must be missing something! I've always worked on this: 

 

3-phase-system-earthed-neutral--768x351.png.603c65ad75df5fb1449163f87772112e.png

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1 minute ago, TonyT said:

On your drawing connections D&E are connected together- that’s the neutral and earth, so measuring any phase to neutral and phase to earth will have the same reading  

 

I know. Fully aware but it should only be 230 not 400.

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14 minutes ago, TonyT said:

I’ve just re read one of my posts where I say 430 volt to earth- clearly I was being a twat apologies for the confusion….

 

TFFT! ?

 

You had me panicked I'd been testing things wrong for 40 years!

 

I'll measure all the caps tomorrow if I can. The converter unfortunately is 6' up in the air on a shelf above a donkey saw. I had to balance on the saw earlier. Yep, I'll discharge the caps!

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I've just emailed the author of this to see if he has any idea on these weird readings I'm getting on the phase converter.

 

IMG_20211019_091557886.thumb.jpg.8395667e0ed8d2847d4841631c318f59.jpg

 

That 430V to earth on one phase is "correct" in that's how the phase converter is built. I measure it between the 415V output in the big transformer and earth. Brown and earth on the right go to the output. So it's "correct" I just don't understand! Well, I understand how the trannie steps it up from 230 to 415 but not how it doesn't upset the machines.

 

IMG_20211017_150658121.thumb.jpg.052ff99a0abfab6ac2b932d509ee8773.jpg

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Though I've had books 16 & 24 from the same Workshop Practice series for years, I recently bought this book:

 

IMG_20211019_091557886.thumb.jpg.6b6332cb4ed0c6568d33b0fc9c1c2da4.jpg

 

Very interesting so I tracked the author down and emailed him. Had a lovely response from him as to what he thinks is happening with the BiLs converter, how it works etc.

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