bikerchris

Heating Outbuilding - heat pipes or electric panels?

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3 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Nothing compared to the noise our neighbours put up with when you start up your motorbikes (don't ask how I know).

Wow, I never knew you lived near me, Kent right? Let's meet up, perhaps your neighbours could join us as we find the loud bike owner. There is a guy a few hundred yards away that goes out every few weeks during the sunny season, may be it's him? It can't be mine, I'm old, so I have a sensible bike that's not much louder than your average Skoda.

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34 minutes ago, bikerchris said:

Wow, I never knew you lived near me

Was meant to be 'your', not 'our'.

I live almost as far from you as o e can get in England.

Did go to school in Canterbury.

Edited by SteamyTea

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As you say, you will use around £2 or maybe more on a 0-5C day, but presumably you aren't sleeping in the room or using it every day of the year.

 

So I would guess that the real world heating requirement is maximum 2000kWh and probably less. Say £300-400 a year.

 

A small fast acting fan type heater is probably best for this.

 

The single room ASHP would save around 2/3 of the cost so would pay for itself in around 4 years after installation. It also gives you the option of AC. It would be running at nowhere near full power but it would be good if you could find the noise level at different power levels.

 

The max electricity usage on that unit is 1.12kW, so only 5 amps on 240V. It shouldn't need an upgrade to your wiring. It may need a higher start up current.

 

That unit has no outside unit so all of the noise would be annoying you! 

 

This is a quieter and cheaper split unit, but I would guess installation is more expensive.

 

https://www.cooleasy.co.uk/3-5kw-12000btu-inverter-srk35zmp-w.html

 

 

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2 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Was meant to be 'your', not 'our'.

Nah, not me any more, not for a few decades now. I'm as quiet as I can be, but not so quiet that someone listening to music or driving on their phone won't notice me.

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2 hours ago, AliG said:

As you say, you will use around £2 or maybe more on a 0-5C day, but presumably you aren't sleeping in the room or using it every day of the year.

 

So I would guess that the real world heating requirement is maximum 2000kWh and probably less. Say £300-400 a year.

 

A small fast acting fan type heater is probably best for this.

 

The single room ASHP would save around 2/3 of the cost so would pay for itself in around 4 years after installation. It also gives you the option of AC. It would be running at nowhere near full power but it would be good if you could find the noise level at different power levels.

 

The max electricity usage on that unit is 1.12kW, so only 5 amps on 240V. It shouldn't need an upgrade to your wiring. It may need a higher start up current.

 

That unit has no outside unit so all of the noise would be annoying you! 

 

This is a quieter and cheaper split unit, but I would guess installation is more expensive.

 

No I'm not sleeping in it, as it's well insulated, if it worked well I would like to have night time heating at a lower temp and then raise it up when I'm about to occupy it.

 

I did have a plumber friend review the heating requirements and he suggested around 2.2KW, though at the moment at worst case temps, it seems to cope with 2KW (non-continuous) even without having completed the floor insulation...so we'll see!

 

Ah, that's interesting about the ASHP, I don't plan on being here for more than 4 years though. There's an outlet a short walk from me, I keep meaning to pop in there and check them out first hand.

 

The current electrical supply is comfortable with the current usage, but it does need improvement.

 

Hmm, not keen on noise inside, I have to put up with a lot of noise on building sites, be nice to have some quiet when in office!

 

Those sound levels of that unit are pretty good, and in theory it would be at the lower range if it wasn't having to boost too often.

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3 hours ago, bikerchris said:
6 hours ago, Onoff said:

That is quite an interesting topic, thanks again 😉

 

I made one of those to dry logs - works well. The heat output is fed into a box with the logs in. 1 year later - we have dry logs. A nice little experiment

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53 minutes ago, BotusBuild said:

I made one of those to dry logs - works well. The heat output is fed into a box with the logs in. 1 year later - we have dry logs. A nice little experiment

That's encouraging to read, thank you for saying 👍

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I have a large number of suitable components available. Pre emptied to save you the time. Bargain at £1 a can.

 

SAM_8235_zps9f6ef2ac

 

Edit: I see you're also in Kent so I'll do free delivery within a half mile radius.

 

😉

 

 

Edited by Onoff
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On a more serious note...

 

Built a small, soda can water heater of my own design out of scrap. Achieved 50degC above ambient. Sort of a poor man's EV.

 

SAM_6052_zpsb757cb4d

 

SAM_6131_zpsc73efb8f

 

SAM_6122_zps488cad1c

 

Then, given my attention span issues I got bored...

 

Keep meaning to make a bfo 8'x4' one. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Onoff said:

I have a large number of suitable components available. Pre emptied to save you the time. Bargain at £1 a can.

 

SAM_8235_zps9f6ef2ac

 

Edit: I see you're also in Kent so I'll do free delivery within a half mile radius.

 

😉

 

 

Ah mate, I'm so tempted, do you do them by the pallet?

 

😂😂👏

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5 hours ago, Onoff said:

Built a small, soda can water heater of my own design out of scrap. Achieved 50degC above ambient. Sort of a poor man's EV.

Wow, that's pretty impressive.

 

5 hours ago, Onoff said:

Then, given my attention span issues I got bored...

 

Keep meaning to make a bfo 8'x4' one. 

Do...it! I'd be interested to see how it goes. 

 

So do you think the water circulated from the top right, up to the tank, then fell down, or did you need a pump? 

 

Fair play to you though 👍👏

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9 hours ago, bikerchris said:

Wow, that's pretty impressive.

 

Do...it! I'd be interested to see how it goes. 

 

So do you think the water circulated from the top right, up to the tank, then fell down, or did you need a pump? 

 

Fair play to you though 👍👏

 

Spend a bit of time on here and you'll know not to wait up for me on this. I've a list of unfinished projects here, so long, I've forgotten some.

 

Yes, the water rose by pure convection is the thinking but relatively slowly given the small area and the fact of no pump.

 

First tried this expecting it to be heating/lifting water like a mad thing. The intake hose stuck in a bowl of water. It didn't work:

 

P4190275_zps7dcdfb6f

 

P4190274_zps087b65ab

 

This configuration didn't work either:

 

SAM_6106_zpsbed04c85

 

Had to put the barrel horizontal like in the earlier photos. Hot in on the right, cold out bottom left. 

 

SAM_6132_zpsb292c9d5

 

Had a few hot car washes out of it and a couple of al fresco showers much to the kids amusement. 

 

Tbh my south west facing hip cries out for PV panels but I want to change to a gable end. 

 

SAM_6158_zps3fe9c218

 

I had thought of building some neat, full height, can heater panels and fitting either side of the sliding doors. As it stands SWMBO is rather attached to the rose on the left and jasmine bush on the right so that won't be happening.

 

20170419_155937

 

This site is good:

 

https://builditsolar.com/

 

It's run by an American lad called Gary. He was I think the site owner of the Simply Solar forum which was an absolute mine of info. 

 

https://ecorenovator.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7393

 

Tbh most on here look down on solar thermal projects like this. The thinking seems to be if you can afford PV why bother. 

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Thank you @Onoff, that's all incredibly interesting stuff, thank you for posting.

 

You're not the only one that does unfinished projects though...well, they get finished when time permits, eventually!

 

That is a shame about your roof, pesky houses are never orientated right, I've got a similar issue. That's the trouble with houses built 50+ years ago, they never considered solar panels!

 

I'm going to keep solar thermal in the back of my mind. I did have a (probably stupid) idea that I could have a run of cans around 3.5m (roughly half the length of the outbuilding), then I might be able to use a white gutter that is some how pulley controlled that covers it during the summer months. It is intriguing though, that's for sure, and I like the simplicity even if it's not as effective as solar. During cold and heavily cloudy days, both would need electric support. I guess that's where solar would win, because I could have battery storage that's used during those days...at more expensive...yeeeeey. 😑

 

I haven't completely finished the insulation on my build quite yet, just a small bit that's un-insulated, but it's a chore to do. Heating seems to be working well so far (electric oiled filled rad) and on the 1 KW setting, it tends to switch on and off to keep it at 18-19C with about 4C outside.

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Has anyone an idea why these are not more common? A commercial version of OnOff's device. Even in Spain they are fairly uncommon, although that may change now that electricity prices are more commercial. They can at least prewarm the water and they are not expensive.

 

 

image.jpeg.77f71628ff60a76f0fe6887709e9e7ed.jpeg

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25 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Has anyone an idea why these are not more common

Because we very really have 10 hours of uninterrupted clear blue skies, and an ambient temperature of over 25⁰C.

They are not designed for the UK climate, why we use evacuated tubes, and well insulated storage.

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Just a small update. So far with temps down to -2C outside, I'm able to keep an internal temp of 19-20C (during 8am-6pm) and it takes approx. 4.5-6 KWh using an oiled filled radiator set to a 900W output. I do also have a computer and monitors that use 150W, but that's pretty much it.

 

I'm looking forward to install the last strips of external wall insulation as well as sorting out the attached store room.

Edited by bikerchris
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4 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Plus yourself that may be adding 100W.

Very true. Technically I also have an LED light that probably produces around 20W as well.

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4 minutes ago, bikerchris said:

I also have an LED light that probably produces around 20W as well.

That is about 2/3rd of my total lighting load.

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