Hilldes

UFH controls - conventional or home automation?

Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, Hilldes said:

Instead I have a new technology that derives energy from rotting vegetation that has lied dormant for millions of years ūüėČ

 

That‚Äôs¬†¬†interesting, sounds like it‚Äôs¬†carbon neutral ūüėÉ ... on that note, I‚Äôll get my coat ....

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, joth said:

I've got a weatherflow tempest, and the loxberry integration for it works very well

 

Thanks for that, I hadn't considered a non-Loxone option for the forecasting.

 

3 hours ago, joth said:

I had intended to circulate UFH in this way (also copied the idea from Jeremy) but so far haven't found it necessary, 

 

My (house's) unusual proportions exaggerate the benefit of circulating the UFH. All habitable space is on the ground floor and due to the depth of the building (previously a cow-shed) we have a few rooms that have no direct light, so with those as well as the North-East and North-West elevation getting no solar gain we have less than a third of the area "benefiting" from solar gain. On the South-West and South-East elevations we have lots of full height glazing. This side of the building therefore over-heats quickly, and the rest is unaffected, so circulating the UFH triples the size of energy store available to the solar gain and helps equalise the building temps.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, IanR said:

Thanks for that, I hadn't considered a non-Loxone option for the forecasting.

 

To caveat my suggestion, I'd say the Tempest weather station itself is so-so. Very clever design, except it's made in California and has unrealistic expectations about how well a solar-powered only device can work in our winters. And their silly wifi bridge seems unreliable and need a periodic reboot. If the station itself had the option of  PoE it would be much nearer a strong recommendation.

The lifetime subscription to their cloud API for forecasts is nice though (at least until they turn that down...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, IanR said:

Thanks for that, I hadn't considered a non-Loxone option for the forecasting.

 

I'm sure there's another option that relies on a free API at some weather site. I think the only limitation is the number of calls you make to it, and it's at least tens a day for free. Can't remember what it is though - might be mentioned on the Loxone Google group. 

 

3 hours ago, IanR said:

My (house's) unusual proportions exaggerate the benefit of circulating the UFH. All habitable space is on the ground floor and due to the depth of the building (previously a cow-shed) we have a few rooms that have no direct light, so with those as well as the North-East and North-West elevation getting no solar gain we have less than a third of the area "benefiting" from solar gain. On the South-West and South-East elevations we have lots of full height glazing. This side of the building therefore over-heats quickly, and the rest is unaffected, so circulating the UFH triples the size of energy store available to the solar gain and helps equalise the building temps.

 

We have some similarities. Floor to ceiling windows to the east and south corner of the kitchen at the east end of the house, and little to no solar gain anywhere else on the ground floor. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, IanR said:

Nope, the MVHR wet heat exchanger is run from the same buffer as the UFH, so at best it¬†trims temps. The difference in energy delivery that 7¬įC chilled water to the MVHR would make compared to 14¬įC hasn't encouraged me to add additional insulation to UFH manifolds and a few pipe runs (that use the same buffer) in order to avoid condensation.

 

We've already insulated our first-floor MVHR manifold and pipework so will be running two circuits with different temperatures.  We have overhangs and loxone-automated blinds, but MVHR cooling is our only active first-floor cooling (no fancoils) so we wanted to ensure we could, if really required, run it at 7C.

 

23 hours ago, IanR said:

Loxone does a bit more for me as it gets ASHP, UFH, MVHR, vents and blinds all working together, by deciding whether to do nothing, take passive measures, or to heat/cool, and then get each system to do its part, as well as running MVHR boost, and DHW circulation loop based on presence sensing within the bathrooms.

 

Yes, that was all a given, although it would be interesting to understand a bit more about your approach, before I start programming our setup.  Have you shared this anywhere?

 

What I was trying to work out was what, if anything, you were doing with you heating system aside from callling for heating/cooling and letting Nibe do it's thing.  It seems you are:

- Doing the no-heat UFH recirculation when required.

- Manually controlling the circulation pumps, rather than letting Nibe fire these up automatically when you call for heat, to enable you to accumulate heat in the buffer without heating the house and then heat/cool the house from the buffer later.

 

Both great ideas!  I might try to twist our ASHP installers arm to enable the UFH recirculation, but in my case the buffer we are using is only 25L so it makes sense to juat call for heat and let Vaillant do everything including manage the buffer temp, run circulation pump(s) and adjust heating circuit temps based on configured min/max temperatures and heating curve.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 03/10/2021 at 00:10, Dan F said:

Yes, that was all a given, although it would be interesting to understand a bit more about your approach, before I start programming our setup.  Have you shared this anywhere?

 

I've only chipped in on other's posts if I feel something I've done is relevant.

 

On 03/10/2021 at 00:10, Dan F said:

What I was trying to work out was what, if anything, you were doing with you heating system aside from callling for heating/cooling and letting Nibe do it's thing.  It seems you are:

- Doing the no-heat UFH recirculation when required.

- Manually controlling the circulation pumps, rather than letting Nibe fire these up automatically when you call for heat, to enable you to accumulate heat in the buffer without heating the house and then heat/cool the house from the buffer later.

 

The actual call for heat is handled by the SMO40 Nibe controller, from the buffer return temp, rather than by Loxone. Loxone just enables/disables heating and cooling on the SMO40. This also helped have a clear line of responsibility for the ASHP installers. ie. their job was complete when the buffer and UVC were correctly heating or cooling without any argument as to whether Loxone is issuing the call for heat.

 

The pumps and UFH isolation valve are automated by Loxone, with a manual override that allows the delay to wait for some forecast solar gain, hopefully avoiding any call for heat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is what we have wired for 'day 1'. We have actually wired one Salus auto balancing actuator per manifold as spark though it might affect the Wunda wiring centre without any. All decorators caps are left open on the other UFH circuits. The wiring is complete but waiting for gas to the boiler before we test.

 

685275969_Screenshot2021-11-30at21_05_09.thumb.png.bb3ebcc4690f8882f0e05450ce6f524c.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now