RK Door Frame "Floating" with Nothing Underneath

[Ralph]

Last night I went to check on the house and discovered that the builder had removed a plank from the door threshold that you can see in the pic. This seems to have been hiding a bit of an issue. 

It looks like the RK door frame is sitting in front of the base blockwork with nothing supporting it underneath. There is just a single bracket which looks like a temporary bodge to stop the bottom of the frame flexing. 

 

It looks like the intent is for the slabs to go under there which would mean no external insulation. I'm waiting to hear from the contractor but this really looks to me like the door needs moved back. In the drawings the size from the inside face of the door frame to the plasterboard return should be 120mm it's actually 200. 

 

Any thoughts?

[Mr Punter]

It is quite hard to see what is going on.  The door needs to sit on something solid.  The sill on ours bridges between the outside brickwork and the inside screed and there is 25mm Celotex upstand between.

[Ralph]

 

58 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

It is quite hard to see what is going on.  The door needs to sit on something solid.  The sill on ours bridges between the outside brickwork and the inside screed and there is 25mm Celotex upstand between.

Yeah I could not get very good pictures. Essentially, instead of sitting on blockwork / internal slab the door set is forward of the blockwork, so the threshold is not sitting on anything but the single bracket you can see in the picture.

It's an RK flush door, I'm not sure if that makes any difference but I'm trying to find some detail drawings from RK to see what they think  it should look like. 

[Ralph]

The front door is a flush fitting RK door while the others are Rationel. The RK is thinner than the Rationels. So to keep the external return from the edge of the cladding to the face of the door the same on all the doors they have moved the RK door forward. This means that it's in front of the blockwork. 

 

They are proposing putting brackets all the way along the bottom covered by a thinner external PIR than the rest of the blockwork, leaving about 35mm for the external slabs to tuck under the door frame. 

 

I'm really not sure about this.

[craig]

Problem with just brackets and no other support. Is the threshold will flex.

 

It should have a solid base but when that’s not possible, then the brackets are the only option. Doesn’t matter whose door it is, it’s the same principle for all. However, I’d be looking to introduced additional brackets and what other support could be introduced.

 

What they appear to be proposing sounds fine but you have to question the detail in the first instance.

[Ralph]

4 minutes ago, craig said:

Problem with just brackets and no other support. Is the threshold will flex.

 

It should have a solid base but when that’s not possible, then the brackets are the only option. Doesn’t matter whose door it is, it’s the same principle for all. However, I’d be looking to introduced additional brackets and what other support could be introduced.

 

What they appear to be proposing sounds fine but you have to question the detail in the first instance.

Cheers. More substantial support is going in plus solid base up to the PIR so it should be supported. I can't face ripping it out and moving it back.

[Bramco]

Wow! That looks like exactly the same door that we've ordered from RK Doors.  Ours will sit on the concrete slab though with a packer which they will be supplying to bring the bottom of the threshold level up so that it will be level with the tiles internally.

 

I think all their diagrams show the flush threshold sitting on the tiling or flooring giving a v small upstand.

 

Simon

[Ralph]

1 minute ago, Bramco said:

Wow! That looks like exactly the same door that we've ordered from RK Doors.  Ours will sit on the concrete slab though with a packer which they will be supplying to bring the bottom of the threshold level up so that it will be level with the tiles internally.

 

I think all their diagrams show the flush threshold sitting on the tiling or flooring giving a v small upstand.

 

Simon

The seem to be good doors, very solid. One thing to look out for is the lock. We went for the standard lock with the internal thumbturn and I can't figure out how to put it on the latch. Because it has the long bar rather than a turn handle you can't open it from the outside without using the key.

[Bramco]

2 minutes ago, Ralph said:

The seem to be good doors, very solid. One thing to look out for is the lock. We went for the standard lock with the internal thumbturn and I can't figure out how to put it on the latch. Because it has the long bar rather than a turn handle you can't open it from the outside without using the key.

 

Fortunately we asked about this and they can fit the latch for the electronic door control, without the electronics - this allows you to put the door on the latch by making the plate floppy - not a technical term but I'm sure you know what I mean.  So you have the same lock but the bit it goes into in the door frame is different.  Not sure if you can retrofit this, there's a channel for the electrics which goes with it I think.  That part of the ordering process was a bit opaque.   Truro gave us a list of accessories and parts etc. then the order confirmation came back from Poland with more stuff, different numbers and descriptions, so there were a few anxious days making sure the order was actually correct and matched what Truro had sent through.

 

Your door looks like the one we ordered with the indented handle - if so did you go for the leds?  And have you tried them out yet?

 

Simon

[Ralph]

The agent here was ADW who were great for the Rationel windows but for getting the door from them was absolutely appalling. I was just glad it was the correct size never mind anything else. 

 

There were wires going to the frame but we were told that was just for the motorised locking system option which me did not choose and that it had a day release function.

 

I'll have to go back to them and try and figure something out.

 

We did not go for the LEDs

[Bramco]

They kept directing us to a local agent who was just someone who once upon a time had ordered a door from them and thought he could start a business - we insisted that they dealt with us through the head office in Truro.  Worked, once they realised we wouldn't deal with the chap they said was their dealer.

 

And yes - it's called the 'day release' option...

 

Simon

[craig]

Have a look at the latch and check if it has a little switch. This is the day/night mode and can be manually activated.

Edited August 20, 2021 by craig

[Ralph]

5 minutes ago, craig said:

Have a look at the latch and check if it has a little switch. This is the day/night mode and can be manually activated.

Cheers. Just had a call from ADW with instructions so will go out and have a look this afternoon. 

[Pocster]

I have an rk door and did indeed give a brick solid support under it . Must admit I’d be unhappy about brackets under it - I think our door weighed in at 150kg + . No way of getting a nice chunk of steel under there ? . Or ( maybe a stupid suggestion ) shuttering and pouring concrete to run under it ? 

[Ralph]

1 hour ago, pocster said:

I have an rk door and did indeed give a brick solid support under it . Must admit I’d be unhappy about brackets under it - I think our door weighed in at 150kg + . No way of getting a nice chunk of steel under there ? . Or ( maybe a stupid suggestion ) shuttering and pouring concrete to run under it ? 

I think what we will do is put an angle iron all the way along the bottom with some sort of blockwork and slabs underneath. Concrete is an idea though. 

 

[Russdl]

17 minutes ago, Ralph said:

I think what we will do is put an angle iron

If that will introduce an unwanted cold bridge then you can get GRP angles that will overcome that. Our doors and sliders are supported on them. 

[Ralph]

42 minutes ago, Russdl said:

If that will introduce an unwanted cold bridge then you can get GRP angles that will overcome that. Our doors and sliders are supported on them. 

Ah nice one thanks!

[Russdl]

@Ralph  I hope it helps, the current arrangement looks pretty unsatisfactory. 
 

(FYI the link I posted was just an example as opposed to a recommendation)

[Ralph]

51 minutes ago, Russdl said:

@Ralph  I hope it helps, the current arrangement looks pretty unsatisfactory. 
 

(FYI the link I posted was just an example as opposed to a recommendation)

Unsatisfactory is an understatement! 

understood, thanks