Alfie

Building our forever home

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Hey all,

 

We've just submitted our pre-app for our potential forever home in Northamptonshire.

 

Outside the village boundaries and currently on my OH's family farm so having to go down the paragraph 79/80 route.

 

Ideally ~300msq, 5 bed, 3/4 bath, open plan.

 

I've found this forum super useful so far and fingers crossed we get approval!

 

 

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Hello, no old agricultural buildings that can be converted under class Q?

Or do you think you've got a good chance under 80? If so would be interesting to see the proposal. I don't believe the forum has ever had such a build on it before.

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5 minutes ago, kxi said:

Hello, no old agricultural buildings that can be converted under class Q?

 

Unfortunately not as several have already been converted and the remainder are still in use.

 

6 minutes ago, kxi said:

Or do you think you've got a good chance under 80? If so would be interesting to see the proposal. I don't believe the forum has ever had such a build on it before.

 

We're working with an architect who has a solid track record with these types of schemes (paragraph 79/55/PPS7) who feels a unique design specific to the area alongside the narrative of why we would want to be there (closer to family, eventually raising kids in this type of environment) should see us have a chance.

 

From some of the comments I'd assume several posters have been through this process prior. Should the pre-app come back positive I'll update with some more details.

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Good luck Alfie :)

 

What part of Northampton are you building? I'm in Roade

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Good morning, welcome to BH and good luck with the project

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43 minutes ago, Vijay said:

Good luck Alfie :)

 

What part of Northampton are you building? I'm in Roade

Welcome @Alfie

 

I'm about to start in Hartwell 🤞...just waiting for the council to pull its finger out & approve my CIL exemption 😣

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I heard from a neighbour that the S.Northants palnners have massively improved and my neighbour got permission for something in 5 weeks - so fingers crossed for you Shuff27 :)

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17 hours ago, Alfie said:

Outside the village boundaries and currently on my OH's family farm so having to go down the paragraph 79/80 route.

 

Hi & Welcome... and good luck, Para 80 has got to be the hardest way of getting planning. Fingers-crossed and you get positive feedback so that we hear more about your "truly outstanding and/or innovative" plans.

Edited by IanR

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56 minutes ago, IanR said:

 

 more about your "truly outstanding and/or innovative" plans.

 

I had not realised that para 80 removed 'or innovative' 

 

(e) the design is of exceptional quality, in that it:

is truly outstanding, reflecting the highest standards in architecture, and would help to raise standards of design more generally in rural areas; and

would significantly enhance its immediate setting, and be sensitive to the defining characteristics of the local area.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-planning-policy-framework/5-delivering-a-sufficient-supply-of-homes

 

One might take this removal as a sad statement about British ambition, but perhaps the planners were fed up of applications trying it on with UFH and a wireless doorbell.

 

 

Also interesting that while part e) gets a lot of play (esp. on architect's websites), part c) which has been around since para 55 would seem to offer a vastly simpler way of rural development than e) or even class Q:

 

(c) the development would re-use redundant or disused buildings and enhance its immediate setting;

 

c) merely has to 'enhance' rather than e)'s 'significantly enhance' AND 'be sensitive to'. There must be something I'm missing here. Perhaps it's harder to show redundance or disuse than I imagine.

 

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2 hours ago, kxi said:

 

I had not realised that para 80 removed 'or innovative' 

 

 

So it does...should be a doddle then!

 

2 hours ago, kxi said:

c) merely has to 'enhance' rather than e)'s 'significantly enhance' AND 'be sensitive to'. There must be something I'm missing here. Perhaps it's harder to show redundance or disuse than I imagine.


But (c) is for the Change of Use of existing structures, (e) is for (isolated) green-field sites.

Edited by IanR

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Update: The pre-app has come back with no major roadblocks (although it contained very little detail on it) which is a start.

 

We're pushing ahead with a Design Review Panel towards the end of September. Fingers crossed they are supportive!

 

Note: the pre-app took less than two weeks for a fairly detailed reply.

Edited by Alfie
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good luck! I look forward to following your journey if you're kind enough to share it with us here. 🙂

 

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We’re towards Towcester and just had positive feedback to our preppanning advice for a 2 story/side and rear extension. 
 

Good luck OP/all and interesting to see how many of us are building/developing around South Northants! 

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“If” you get into difficulty with the application, Richard Hawkes of Hawkes architecture is very experienced with paragraph 80.

 

Good luck with the build and welcome to the forum.

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Welcome aboard. 
 

Sounds like you’re marching towards kicking off an awesome project. Look forward to seeing the designs. :) 

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Update: We've had our Design Review Panel this week and things are still progressing. It was a very useful experience and it was great to have several pairs of completely objective eyes looking at what we have from an ecological, town planning, landscaping and architectural perspective.

 

There were a lot of praise about the site and the characteristics that we can work with and a fair bit of work for us to do in terms of the potential concept. When we have something a bit more concrete down I will share some of the plans.

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I've had several conversations with folks at various stages of planning applications that are geared towards para 79/80 houses and decided to document our journey so far:

 

Firstly we consulted a local architect who has worked on several Class Q developments. They walked the site with us and mentioned that it's highly unlikely we could gain approval due to being classed as "open countryside", however we could pursue a specific "country house" clause that they didn't feel best equipped to pursue.

March 2020: Grand Designs: we watched most episodes, making a list of houses that we liked the look off and the architects that were responsible for the designs. This gave us a long list to begin researching. It was here that terms such as the "country house clause", PPS7, Paragraph 55 and Paragraph 79 were mentioned.

 

We started researching para 79e (as it was at the time) housing requirements. There didn't seem to be a ton of information around the process however Studiobark conducted an incredible study focused on previous applications, including creating an interactive map  - I highly recommend reading this should you be looking to go down this route.

 

Richard Hawkes has a Youtube channel which was also very helpful in providing additional information and context around the criteria; I'd highly recommend the two video's focused on the Braintree case to provide context on the "isolation" principle that needs to be met.

 

A few more hand links below:

https://www.architecture.com/knowledge-and-resources/knowledge-landing-page/using-paragraph-79-to-design-innovative-country-houses

https://www.countrylife.co.uk/property/the-exceptional-houses-being-built-in-idyllic-countryside-spots-thanks-to-the-foresight-of-paragraph-79-215618

https://urbanistarchitecture.co.uk/paragraph-79-house/

https://www.hawkesarchitecture.co.uk/para-79/

https://www.hughesplanning.co.uk/para-55-houses-explained

 

 

After reviewing a large number of both successful and unsuccessful applications the Pareto principle certainly seems to be present - a large number of approvals come from a small number of architects/firms (I'm unsure on the rules with regards to promotion (I have no stake in any of the firms), however I'd be happy to share a list of the firms should admin be happy with this).

 

June: 2020 An initial site visit is the first stage each firm recommended where they would be identifying various strategic opportunities & constraints being presented by the site and its context. This would be followed by a detailed research exercise which would involve a comprehensive analysis of local and national policy as well as looking into planning history within the local area. This stage is crucial as without enough elements to play with any future planning application would likely be unsuccessful. The fee's for this stage varied a lot (several hundred to several thousand)!

 

I'll add another couple of posts later today/tomorrow focusing on:

 

- Site visit to pre-app

- Pre-app to Design Review Panel

- Design Review Panel feedback and next steps

 

Hopefully this will be useful to some.

 

 

Edited by Alfie
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In our area (Norfolk) farmers seem to get away with building houses for "Farm Managers". Amazing how many "managers" they need........

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