LPS valuation and rates after flood

[Jimbo37]

My home (which I had just started to renovate) was flooded Aug 20, and I was forced to move out and opt to demolish and rebuild instead. I requested exemption from rates at the time, but was (finally, due to COVID!) contacted by LPS this week to say I was responsible until demolition (after planning, still outstanding) had begun. Reason, I have a structurally sound (or structurally repairable) building, even if financially unviable. Has anyone experience, knowledge or advice - I could do with the breather?

[Temp]

Try your Insurance Co to see if they will pay it.

 

Have a look at the Council Tax exemptions on your councils web site.  Some say they will grant an exemption if your Insurance Company won't pay Council Tax.

 

https://www.cheshireeast.gov.uk/council_tax/reductions/special-circumstances-council-tax-reductions-section-13a.aspx

 

Council Tax reductions in special circumstances (Section 13A)

...snip...

If you are applying because of fire or flood damage, you will need to send full details of the damage plus evidence such as reports, photographs and written confirmation from your insurance company that they will not cover the Council Tax in respect of the damaged property.

 

Other councils have different rules

https://www.richmondshire.gov.uk/environmental-health/flooding/flood-damage-council-tax/

 

Flood damage council tax discount

Domestic properties that have been flooded through a weather related incident may be entitled to a council tax discount for a maximum period of 12 months or less if the works required to make the property habitable have been completed.

If you are no longer able to live in your property and have moved to a temporary address the entitlement would be a 100% discount.

If you are only able to live in the upstairs of your property, or are required to live at the property (for insurance purposes), the entitlement would be a 50% discount.

 

[Temp]

If you have trouble finding your councils exemption page tell us the name of your council.

[Conor]

We had a battle to get our house derated until we were allowed to demolish. You might be able to pull the widows out, remove heating, bathroom and kitchens. But this may not be enough and you might need to remove a wall or part of the roof to qualify. At that point you may get in trouble with planning enforcement for starting demolition without permission... We had extra complication of being in a conservation area, so even partial demolition was a big no. We ended up paying rates for two years on an empty house in North Down, and our current house at the same time ?

Edited August 2, 2021 by Conor

[Temp]

As I understand it before 2013 you could claim an exemption if the property was uninhabitable but think they did away with that to encourage empty properties to be brought back into use. 

[Temp]

14 hours ago, Jimbo37 said:

contacted by LPS this week to say I was responsible until demolition (after planning, still outstanding)

 

It does seem unfair that the Council can continue to collect rates until the Council determines a planning grant. What incentive do they have to hurry? 

 

I think a nice letter to your MP might be in order. Ask him to urge the Council to use any discretionary powers they have to grant an exemption for flood damaged properties that need to be demolished because repair is not economically viable.  

[Jimbo37]

Thank you Temp, just seeing this now - I did have a good old chat with the local MLA 9ie NI), thanks

[Jimbo37]

Yes, I was tempted to pull at it, but I refrained - too sacredy custard - thanks for your input, Conor

Edited January 31, 2023 by Jimbo37

[Jimbo37]

On 02/08/2021 at 12:43, Temp said:

If you have trouble finding your councils exemption page tell us the name of your council.

Can't find anything @Temp. It's newry, mourne and down district council. I need something, as I getting "that's the rules, no exceptions"

[Temp]

@Jimbo37 Sorry I missed the reply in January. Its hard to remember all the threads Ive been active in.

 

I didn't spot you are in NI until just now. Looks like the rules are different there to England.

 

I managed to find this which is bad news but I have another suggestion below..

 

https://www.judiciaryni.uk/sites/judiciary/files/decisions/COOPER FINAL JULY 19 (003).pdf

 

Quote

(2) The appellant contends that the property should have been granted a temporary exemption from the requirement to pay rates due to the fact that it was a dwelling undergoing extensive refurbishment and thus incapable of beneficial occupation.

 

Quote

 

12. The appellant commenced work to the property and sought a change to the capital valuation on 13 December 2017 on the basis that the subject property was derelict. He was advised by the respondent that the property was considered to be capable of beneficial occupation and no change was made to the capital valuation. This was appealed to the Commissioner of Valuation and no change was made to the capital valuation. The appellant having appealed this decision, the matter comes before this tribunal.

 

13. The appellant indicated that he failed to understand why in six years, with no change in the law, the position regarding rates had changed. He argues that he has been charged rates for a property where he was not able to live in. He also contends that Northern Ireland is the only part of the United Kingdom where there is no exemption for rates for houses that are undergoing serious renovation.

 

 

Quote

 

26. The main issue in this case relates, at its simplest, to whether the appellant should be charged rates when his property is undergoing extensive refurbishment. He feels that it is unfair that he is charged rates for a period of time when he is not able to live in the property.

 

27. In this regard the tribunal is aware that in other areas of the United Kingdom there is provision for properties undergoing renovation to be exempt from council tax, notably in England for instance under the Council Tax (Exempt Dwellings) Order 1992. However equivalent legislation does not apply in Northern Ireland and the tribunal can only apply the law as it applies to this jurisdiction. It is not for the tribunal to express its view on the appropriateness or otherwise of such legislation as exists elsewhere.

 

 

Quote

37. In relation to the facts of this case in considering the question “having regard to the character of the property and a reasonable amount of repair works being undertaken could the property be occupied as a dwelling”, the tribunal finds that while it is clear that repairs and improvements were undertaken, if a reasonable amount of repair works were carried out the property could be occupied as a dwelling. Weighing up the arguments advanced and the material considerations the tribunal’s unanimous decision is that the subject property as it stands, in the state and condition described in the evidence, is properly to be included in the rating list as a hereditament. The appellant’s appeal on that point fails accordingly. If the tribunal is satisfied that a hereditament exists, one of the statutory assumptions in Northern Ireland rating law is that the property is in an average state of repair and fit out, having regard to the age and character of the hereditament and its locality.

 

 

One possibility might be to challenge the valuation on which the rates are calculated. That wasn't an issue in the case quoted above, they all agreed its value. Presumably if it is/was uninhabitable its value would be a lot lower so the rates calculated should be lower? This might take the matter out of the hands of the local council to whatever tribunal values properties for ratable value in NI?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Temp

[Jimbo37]

Thanks @Temp and a always appreciate the pointers. No sorries needed - I sometimes forget the questions i asked myself, when issues moves on. I'll check out  this when to get to my pc.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Jimbo37
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[Jimbo37]

19 hours ago, Temp said:

One possibility might be to challenge the valuation on which the rates are calculated.

Thanks @Temp - Im going to do some digging here. They did slightly adjust it after my first approach, but it was very, very marginal (don't have the figure to hand). They are hard nosed, judging by the above.

I did have a call from LPS yesterday, and I asked them to look at the date of "removal" on the basis that it is knocked, with pp, following the flood. Although their representative was sympathetic, Im not hopeful that that will yield a result, but I'll await - obviously, if they did some thing decent on the date, I'd be ok to suck up the rest, in the interests of the other stuff in my in tray. Your research is appreciated, thank you.

Ill go into that www for some further reading - can you suggest a couple of search terms

Edited September 29, 2023 by Jimbo37
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