hendriQ

Who should pay for this: me or my builder?

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My contract with my builder is fairly detailed. We used a RIBA standard form contract which annexed about 50 pages of detailed drawings and an excel speadsheet of some 100 rows long which  clarified which items the builder was responsible for purchasing and which items I was responsible for.

 

In respect of roof lights, it states: customer to supply roof lights, builder to install. One of the roof lights I purchased is bespoke and so it came with an insulated upstand which the builder installed no problem. The other two are simple veluxes. After purchasing them, I sent the builder the links for the Velux insulation collars and flashing kits. He is saying this is my responsibility because I'm supplying the windows. But in my view these are not part of the windows, they are insulation and flashing details which he needs to install to make it watertight and to comply with the U values required by BR.

 

I am already paying him a considerable amount to re-tile the whole roof, and with that the contract stated that I would purchase the roof tiles and he would fit them. It was silent about the other bits and yet he is purchasing new roofing felt and battons and not making an issue of that, so why is he making an issue of the insulation collars and flashing kits?

 

What do you understand by: customer to supply roof lights, builder to install.

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I think this one is down to you to pay for.

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I'm afraid agree with the builder. I would take "Installation" to cover cover labour and consumables like general purpose adhesives but not special flashing kits. In the case of Velux type windows these are typically specific to the window and type of roof tile. 

 

That's just my opinion, others may disagree.

 

 

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I agree the contract could have been clearer, but the point of me buying certain items is that I buy the items which aesthetically will have an impact on the look of the house. So the contract specifies I buy all facing bricks, tiles, floor coverings, paint, kitchen units and bathroom suites, etc. and he installs them. There is good reason for that, because take a tile for example, there is a cheap tile and a much more expensive tile, but the labour involved is the same. Take flashing for example, that is not only relevant to the installation of a roof window. There are flashings that he will need to install on other bits of the refurb, but surely he's not expecting me to pay for those in addition to what he's already quoted me. Insulation is another example, the contract required him to insulate the house, in between floors and in the loft etc. He has priced for that within his overall price, and is not expecting me to pay for insulation separately, so why would i need to pay for the insulation collar on the veluxes?

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Sorry, down to you I reckon.  I supplied Velux x4 with flashing kits for my roofers to install, to make sure they had the correct ones.  I think the insulation collar is optional; he can't reasonably have been expected to price for that too.

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You might have a point about the insulation collar. But surely flashing kits are the nuts and bolts of these things, as in they are certainly not optional.

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A velux isn't complete without it's flashing kit.

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+1 I supplied all the Velux kit, windows to flashing to insulation collar, blinds etc. Got the whole lot delivered as one order.

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5 replies saying down to you...

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Make it 6, Flashing kit is part of window.

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3 minutes ago, Roys said:

Make it 6, Flashing kit is part of window.

so why is it sold separately? Appreciate there are different kinds, but why aren't they all sold bundled together with the purchaser just having to choose from a drop down menu which kit they require? Very confusing.

 

If I'm supplying doors, frames and architraves and the builder is installing them and the contract is silent on hinges, do I have to buy the hinges?

 

What about floors? I'm supplying those and he is installing them, but who pays for the flooring screws. There are different types of flooring screws after all.

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Sorry but the flashing is your responsibility. They are separate as they depend on slate / tile / profile so it’s why they aren’t bundled. 
 

Supply for me is that you supply everything - install is install all items provided by the client. 

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Sorry mate - I have to go with the flow here and say that all the bit for the window incl flashing will sit with you. As for you point on the floors, if fixings are silent, I would expect them to pick them up.

 

As for the doors - if you are supplying doors, frames, handles etc - I would have thought that the hinges, latches and keeps would also be with you - supply frames, doors and door kits - same goes for the locks and bathroom kits.

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Okay, I'm clearly in the minority here. Just very confusing how one is meant to deduce these things. I will do the right thing and speak to my builder (who was quite upset when i told him I was expecting him to pay this).

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3 minutes ago, hendriQ said:

Okay, I'm clearly in the minority here. Just very confusing how one is meant to deduce these things. I will do the right thing and speak to my builder (who was quite upset when i told him I was expecting him to pay this).

 

Apologise and say it was your mistake.  It goes a long way.

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Lol another here. Buy the flashing you tight git. They're not supplied as you buy different ones for different roof coverings. 

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1 hour ago, hendriQ said:

Okay, I'm clearly in the minority here. Just very confusing how one is meant to deduce these things. I will do the right thing and speak to my builder (who was quite upset when i told him I was expecting him to pay this).

You are best emailing him and telling him that you have looked into it and realise that the window should be supplied with all the flashings and kit - he is probably thinking there is a row ahead - don't do it tonight though - trades hate getting after hours emails in the evening!

 

It doesn't hurt to clarify any other gear he expects you to supply at the same time so you are prepared - you don't want to be caught on the hop for supplies at the moment - it is becoming increasingly chaotic getting gear to site.

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2 hours ago, hendriQ said:

so why is it sold separately? Appreciate there are different kinds, but why aren't they all sold bundled together with the purchaser just having to choose from a drop down menu which kit they require? Very confusing.

 

If I'm supplying doors, frames and architraves and the builder is installing them and the contract is silent on hinges, do I have to buy the hinges?

 

What about floors? I'm supplying those and he is installing them, but who pays for the flooring screws. There are different types of flooring screws after all.

 

who is supplying the door handles ? Hinges and latches are normally part of the kit.

 

builder will have priced for normal consumables like screws, nail gun nails and gas etc

 

the flashing kits are separate because there are different kits depending on the roof tiles they need to flash. 

 

Just apologise to the builder explain you didn't understand and everything will be fine.

 

 

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2 hours ago, hendriQ said:

so why is it sold separately? Appreciate there are different kinds, but why aren't they all sold bundled together with the purchaser just having to choose from a drop down menu which kit they require? Very confusing.

 

If I'm supplying doors, frames and architraves and the builder is installing them and the contract is silent on hinges, do I have to buy the hinges?

 

What about floors? I'm supplying those and he is installing them, but who pays for the flooring screws. There are different types of flooring screws after all.

 

Sold separately because in theory you could roll your own flashing system but don't go there.

 

As I said above, I'd expect him to pay for consumables. That would include standard screws, nails and adhesives. Obscure screws specific to something being fitted would be down to you. For example in the unlikely event the flooring supplier required you to use a specific make and type of screw to maintain the warranty then that would be down to you. If you can use any suitable screw the I'd say the builder.

 

It's a bit of a grey area if it's not in the contract. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Faz said:

you don't want to be caught on the hop for supplies at the moment - it is becoming increasingly chaotic getting gear to site.

Well this is what’s bugging me the most, not so much the cost but the responsibility for sourcing. I emailed him in April saying, I’ve ordered the rooflights, these are the ones I’ve ordered, and looking at the details, these are the flashing kits and insulation collars you need to buy. The day after, he raised it, and I said I was assuming he was covering it. He reluctantly agreed. Then today out of the blue he’s telling me “I’m fitting the roof, where are the flashing and collars you were going to buy.” He’s basically forgotten that we already had this discussion. Hopefully lead times aren’t too bad, but roofgiant is out of stock.

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builders merchants, jewsns, travis etc stock them.

 

Not worth losing the good will of the builder over a £60 flashing kit.

 

wood for the trees mate.

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13 hours ago, hendriQ said:

He’s basically forgotten that we already had this discussion.

More likely he came to the same conclusion as the rest of us and realised it was not his job to buy them…… 

as others have said just get them ordered and move on, small change in the bigger picture. 

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He had actually already bought them when I raised it again this morning. Two flashing kits and two insulation collars for two of Velux’s largest windows. £240. I apologised and said I would pay him for it. 

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1 hour ago, hendriQ said:

I apologised and said I would pay him for it. 

Good move; much respect!  For that gesture, you’ll get your money back many times over I think.

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Sounds like you have a decent builder there, good luck with the rest of the work.

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