clearfox Eating worm monster arrived

[readiescards]

Following on from:

http://forum.buildhub.org.uk/ipb/topic/1963-excessive-cost-of-sewage-treatment-plants/

 

The Clearfox with Graf baffle tank arrived today - worms coming next month

 

Going to need some big holes!

[ToughButterCup]

You have more courage than I do.

 

While admitting I probably haven't done much research on the issue (but having followed the linked discussion), I wonder if you'd be kind enough to tell us how you arrived at the decision to install this system.

I suspect that factors other than cost were involved. What were they? What type of reactions have you had? If the topic comes up in conversation, what do guests at your house say? What does your BCO say about it? Have you had any interesting challenges from other professionals?  

 

I ask because the system answers a problem that, I suspect, stops some people from building their own house. I know for certain, from personal experience, that the system is widely used in Germany; there, the whole topic of 'issue' is no issue, as it were. 

[readiescards]

Yep at £4500 it is 'excessively expensive' but I really really wanted:

• Something quiet - can't stand constant buzzy noises - my partner was not allowed to charge her electric toothbrush in the bath room next to my office in last house because of the annoying buzz it made
• 100% non-electrical being off grid - i'd pretty much given up trying to find a suitable treatment plant and was going with the Graf One2Clean which consumed the least electric I could find, but required mounting a compressor outside bedroom window or in utility but that would have exceeded the 20metre max compressor to plant distance they allow. Even that minimal electric consumption at two 7 hour runs every 24hrs was an additional electrical load I was keen to avoid
• No tied in maintenance contracts
• Something that could run straight a field dyke as the output is clean enough
• Something that made use of the natural fall of my land to the field dyke - I have around 4 m to play with

I also desired

• Minimal dislodging - the worms in the Grafton baffle unit should keep this to 
• Something from a respected source - in a previous post I'd asked about another worm based solution but the supplier was pretty useless and could not convince  me many units had been sold

I went for the Clearfox version supplied by the UK reseller instead of the Irish reseller as the Graf baffle tank with worms seemed a better idea than standard Clearfox baffle tank and it was same price. Although there will only be 3 of us living in a 3 bed house, I'm keeping the attic space ready for conversion to another 2 double bedrooms so the 1-9 person unit allows for this future expansion 

[readiescards]

12 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

 What does your BCO say about it? Have you had any interesting challenges from other professionals?  

 

The Clearfox is approved by the British waterways so BCO happy.

The plumber and digger guys are still getting their heads around it - I'll try and keep this thread updated as we install it.

 Luckily the worms are coming later - I was getting concerned about how to keep them fed before we moved in!

[ProDave]

British Waterways morphed into the Canal & River Trust. What is their interest?

 

Plumber and digger driver should not have issues. If I can install my own unit myself the professionals should not have a problem. But we do look forward to pictures with diggers and big holes in the ground (we are easily pleased)

 

As long as it's approved to the relevant BS number I am sure building control will accept it.

[readiescards]

Sorry meant British  Water:

http://www.britishwater.co.uk/Accreditation-Certification/certified-equipments.aspx

 

Big hole pics next week I hope!

[readiescards]

Big hole ready for tomorrow's Clearfox installation

[PeterW]

Have you got a bowser ready to fill it ..??! Thats a huge hole ..! 

[MikeSharp01]

1 hour ago, readiescards said:

Big hole ready for tomorrow's Clearfox installation

Somebody is bloody good with a digger! Smoother than a babies bottom and just look at those teeth (tooth) marks!

Edited April 5, 2017 by MikeSharp01

[Ferdinand]

Your reasoning seems good.

 

That is the spitting image of Bernard Cribbin's "Hole in the Ground".

 

Can we hope to see a photograph with an appropriate type of hat on the filled in hole?

 

F

Edited April 6, 2017 by Ferdinand

[readiescards]

After an initial hiccup (I got the first tank put in backwards - very poor documentation and no-one available to contact at SepticTanks.co.uk or Graf UK) the tanks are in thanks to the landscape guys big digger.

 

 

[readiescards]

The cost of installation has risen considerably as I had not realised just how much gravel was going to be needed - as we went with one big hole rather than two separate holes to get the tanks close together. (min separation is 5ft) plus the drain to the water course also needs lots of gravel - which helps to ensure the hole never files with water (since the Clearfox is basically a empty plastic box likely to float out of the ground if the hole filled with water)

[readiescards]

This is the redundant 'thorttle' - supplied by Clearfox but not used when the Graf baffle tank is supplied - disappointingly no instructions to tell me that.  

 

It will now be this week's bath toy for me 5 year old boy - saves raiding the recycling box for new bath toys!

[Nickfromwales]

Your boy is living the dream. 

Who needs Toys r Us, eh ?!?

 

[Hastings]

How is the CLearfox experience going, now a few years after installation?

I am thinking of one for an off-grid build but hesitating due to the size of tanks (3 tanks for an 8 PE house) as I don't have much room around the house and trying to fit in a borehole too.

[readiescards]

Hi @Hastings

 

My review after 18 months usage

 

Pros:

* quiet - very important to me as it is only 7m from our property

* zero electric

* zero servicing costs

* potentially zero emptying costs -minimal sludge when I last measured it after 12 months usage

* seems to work - nearly clear water exiting filter unit (I've been unable to find a reasonably priced test kit to verify this in detail)

 

Cons:

* Expensive to purchase

* Expensive to install as massive system, so big hole = expensive kit needed to dig big hole and lots of expensive gravel to pack it back up

* Quiet ugly with 3 lids and a chimney on show

* do to lack of installation instructions from retailer I initially installed the sludge collection chamber the correct way round and then rang the retailer to check I'd got it right way round and he advised me I had got it wrong so I took the sludge collection chamber out and reversed it.  It is now in the wrong way round!  Lucklily all this means is that the sludge collection part of the sludge chamber is smaller than it should be but as I brought a big unit to allow for future expansion this is no issue.

* biggest downside is the fact that since full enclosing the rest of the foul water system we sometimes get wafts of unpleasant smells - I'm unable to identify whether this is the pre-sludge chamber or just very complex air movements - I doubt it is the Clearfox itself.

* the tiny rubber stops on the Clearfox trough have failed after 12 months - Clearfox themselves have advised they are only for noise dampening and are expected to wear out (so I've not bothered to pay £13 for a replacement pair)

 

Summary

* Good unit, best install a good distance away and ideally not in line of sight, big upfront costs

 

[scottishjohn]

how expensive is expensive?

[Jeremy Harris]

Thanks for raising the cost issue, as one of my concerns with our set up is that the air pump is a constant power demand, which pushes up the house base load.  I've been looking at battery storage for some time, and the added cost of a "no electrical power needed" treatment plant, over the cost of the system we have (around £2k, plus about another £1k in installation cost - just a single round hole around 2m wide and 2m deep) is something worth factoring in to the investment in battery storage, when it comes to the saving in running cost (small as it is).

[scottishjohn]

3 hours ago, readiescards said:

Hi @Hastings

 

My review after 18 months usage

 

Pros:

* quiet - very important to me as it is only 7m from our property

* zero electric

* zero servicing costs

* potentially zero emptying costs -minimal sludge when I last measured it after 12 months usage

* seems to work - nearly clear water exiting filter unit (I've been unable to find a reasonably priced test kit to verify this in detail)

 

Cons:

* Expensive to purchase

* Expensive to install as massive system, so big hole = expensive kit needed to dig big hole and lots of expensive gravel to pack it back up

* Quiet ugly with 3 lids and a chimney on show

* do to lack of installation instructions from retailer I initially installed the sludge collection chamber the correct way round and then rang the retailer to check I'd got it right way round and he advised me I had got it wrong so I took the sludge collection chamber out and reversed it.  It is now in the wrong way round!  Lucklily all this means is that the sludge collection part of the sludge chamber is smaller than it should be but as I brought a big unit to allow for future expansion this is no issue.

* biggest downside is the fact that since full enclosing the rest of the foul water system we sometimes get wafts of unpleasant smells - I'm unable to identify whether this is the pre-sludge chamber or just very complex air movements - I doubt it is the Clearfox itself.

* the tiny rubber stops on the Clearfox trough have failed after 12 months - Clearfox themselves have advised they are only for noise dampening and are expected to wear out (so I've not bothered to pay £13 for a replacement pair)

 

Summary

* Good unit, best install a good distance away and ideally not in line of sight, big upfront costs

 

as it has a vent to atmosphere to allow in air --that has to be prime suspect for the smell 

if you get a situation  where air comes out rather than going in .

I  assume it has  air admission valve on the vent pipe,  same as you have on toilet waste system--maybe a bit sticky?

certainly i will have no problem in siting it well away from buildings

[Hastings]

Thanks @readiescards for the comprehensive update. Very helpful. I think the upfront costs seem worth it for the long term saving in maintenance, electric generation and storage costs.

 

My main worry is the siting "a good distance away" as I won't be able to put it further than 10m from the house. I can disguise the visual impact but smell probably not.

 

Presumably even the air blower type units have to have some kind of air outlet? Or does that blown air find its way out by traveling back up the soil pipe to the the house roof-level vent?

Edited January 3, 2019 by Hastings
typo

[ProDave]

35 minutes ago, Hastings said:

Presumably even the air blower type units have to have some kind of air outlet? Or does that blown air find its way out by traveling back up the soil pipe to the the house roof-level vent?

Our Conder Air blower treatment plant has a mushroom vent on it's lid, mainly as that is the air intake for the blower pump.

 

Otherwise it is vented at the far end of the stack via the stink pipe above the roof of the house, and at the discharge pipe into the burn.

 

There is never any smell in the house (there would not be with any system unless you have a leak in the drain pipes)  But even outside standing right next to the treatment plant, or right by the discharge pipe into the burn, there has never been any smell whatsoever.

 

The discharge into the burn is a clear oudodourless liquid.  These things really do seem to work very well indeed.

[scottishjohn]

48 minutes ago, Hastings said:

Thanks @readiescards for the comprehensive update. Very helpful. I think the upfront costs seem worth it for the long term saving in maintenance, electric generation and storage costs.

 

My main worry is the siting "a good distance away" as I won't be able to put it further than 10m from the house. I can disguise the visual impact but smell probably not.

 

Presumably even the air blower type units have to have some kind of air outlet? Or does that blown air find its way out by traveling back up the soil pipe to the the house roof-level vent?

I missed the costs of the units ?

could you repost

[Jeremy Harris]

1 hour ago, Hastings said:

My main worry is the siting "a good distance away" as I won't be able to put it further than 10m from the house. I can disguise the visual impact but smell probably not.

 

Presumably even the air blower type units have to have some kind of air outlet? Or does that blown air find its way out by traveling back up the soil pipe to the the house roof-level vent?

 

We have a Biopure unit, with an air blower.  I looked at the passive systems, but having read reports of smells from some of them, and the importance of siting the vent pipes in a way that both ensures good air flow and doesn't result in smells near the house, I decided to bite the bullet and just get an air blower unit.  Our  treatment plant is barely 7m from the house, around 1m from the edge of our drive and maybe 2m from the adjacent lane.  There's no smell at all from it that I've been able to detect.  We have no vents on the foul drain that runs down to it, just the vent on the top of the lid. 

 

I believe that the key to reducing odour is to ensure that the unit is always operating as an aerobic digester, with plenty of excess oxygen to ensure no part of it is ever anaerobic.  It's worth noting that septic tanks are inherently anaerobic, and this contributes a fair bit to the odour that some can allow out through the vent if the crust is disturbed.  I believe that the biggest challenge that passive-type aerobic treatment units have is getting enough air into the effluent.  It's hard to beat the effectiveness of a relatively low power air pump when it comes to both aerating and causing the internal effluent to circulate all the time.

 

In terms of cost, our Biopure cost around £2k, plus about another £1k for installation.

[joe90]

We have no smells at all from our Vortex unit (air blower system)and glad we opted for it. The pump is a little louder than I imagined (very quiet location) but I will be burying it in the ground next summer. 

[Hastings]

10 hours ago, scottishjohn said:

I missed the costs of the units ?

could you repost

£4650+VAT for the 8pe Clearfox.