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Birk57

Problem with trust

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Hi All,

I am a new member that needs advise.

Yesterday received planning approval of my new and first self build project, I would like to build with SIPS. However, lead time will be 14 weeks and the manufacturers of the SIPS wants an initial deposit of 20%,then at 4 weeks want 40%, that mean around £85K of unsecured deposit for about 3 months.

I think in 2016, 2 SIPPS companies went bust taking all the deposits with them

My question is it possible to insure this? 

The company has offered a Vesting certificate to secure the completed goods, but they will only be manufactured in week 13

 

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It's a similar situation with timber frame companies.

 

At some point they need to commit design resources to your project and then reserve a production slot in their factory, plus secure materials etc. 

 

I don't believe you can insure but if you pay at least £100 on a credit card then the card company are jointly liable for the goods.

 

This saved my bacon when the balustrade company I was dealing with went bust.

 

Have you explored other build methods and suppliers? I found SIPs more expensive than alternative timber frame methods back in 2015 but maybe it's different now.

 

With SIPs, you also need to pay attention to the cold bridge risk at the soleplate level. 

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This is one of the reasons we have diced against Sips and TF On our last and next two 

While companies are manic busy at the moment 

Many will go bust when the government handouts stop 

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@Birk57 this isn’t an issue of trust, it is straight line contract assurance so it is relatively simple to sort. 
 

1. check the company out, look at the history on companies house and the directors. Any significant change in the past 18 months would make me wary. 
2. as @Bitpipe said - pay the deposit on credit card. Even if it’s £100, it covers you for default. It won’t help you recover consequential loss but it’s something. Make sure the contract for SIPs is in the same name and address as the card holder and the card address. 
3. Consider the build choice carefully. Why SIPs..? What are you trying to achieve with that route as you will need to be in control as they need specific contractors, cranage, scaffold etc. First build with this and you’re taking on something that could need a lot of management. 
4. You got planning yesterday ... with the best will in the world, unless you have a ground works contractor signed up and ready now, you won’t be out of the ground in 14 weeks, never mind ready for SIPs. Trades are maxed out, I would only push the button on a SIPs or frame order when everything is lined up and work is starting in the next 4 weeks as you will hit issues. 
 

Hope that helps. 

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@Birk57 you will find that staged payments upfront apply to all TF companies, as suggested just research them, see what their cash flow is etc and stick to big well known companies.

 

Don't be swayed by nonsense about having to pay particular attention to soleplate interstitial condensation when using SIP. The same issue applies to standard TF construction as much as it does SIP. I had this back and forth with JS Harris a couple of years back on here before he acknowledged that I was right in that the issue is not unique to SIP. SIP doesn't seem very popular on here and that is always the 'go to' reason why. There are however a few of us on here  using SIP, @SuperJohnG being another.

 

As for Point 3. from @PeterW (great contributer) but I disagree. The management required is bo different to any TF construction. Cranes etc are all dealt with by the supplier provided you go the 'supply & erect' route. All I did with regards to the SIP frame is stand and watch while they cracked on🤷‍♂️

 

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12 minutes ago, LA3222 said:

The management required is bo different to any TF construction. Cranes etc are all dealt with by the supplier provided you go the 'supply & erect' route. All I did with regards to the SIP frame is stand and watch while they cracked on🤷‍♂️


I don’t agree but for a first build you need to be on top of everything and there is very little slack in a TF or SIPs schedule. 

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17 minutes ago, PeterW said:


I don’t agree but for a first build you need to be on top of everything and there is very little slack in a TF or SIPs schedule. 

The schedule is dealt with by the company. The only part you need to meet is getting the foundations ready in time for the frame. You can easily give yourself some buffer time here, the same with getting the scaff up. Once the TF starts going up its over to the TF company to manage the schedule. You take over again once they've finished.

 

It's not difficult at all, get all your trades in hand 6 months before with a rough date they are required and keep refining that as you go along. When it comes to, they probably won't be able to start the exact day you want, but within a week or so they can as long as they're kept informed of progress.

 

Not sure where the difficulty is here. You'd have the same 'management' issues to tackle with a traditional build🤷‍♂️

 

I messaged plasterer yesterday to say hopefully start at beginning of June. The last time I spoke to him was the start of Feb - he's happy enough. Sparky started Monday, I booked him at start of Jan with rough date, messaged him in Feb, again at start of march and he was able to start week after I was ready for him. Nothing difficult about any of this, finding good trades is the difficult part but you won't know until they start as to how good they are!

 

I've being doing a lot myself, I dare say it is a lot busier if you have multiple trades on site at the same time. A lot depends on personal timeliness and the quantity of work you do yourself I expect.

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My issue is only with £85k paid out to a company for 3month, someone suggested to me  a bank bond would secure my deposit, is that an option anyone has used?

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Where the credit card protection has been mentioned, maybe you could split the invoices  into values of 30k or less. I'm not sure if the value is over 30k, they would cover any of it??

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https://www.bjcjoinery.co.uk/guardian-extensions/sip-panel-extensions/

 

Through Quality Assured National Warranties we also provide a 10 year insurance backed guarantee. QANW also provide the deposit protection insurance for all our contracts, this means your deposit is fully protected. If you would like more information, visit the QANW website HERE.

 

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2 hours ago, Temp said:

10 year insurance backed guarantee. QANW also provide the deposit protection insurance for all our contracts, this means your deposit is fully protected.

Seems a good solution.

"Advance payment" bond seems to be another good solution, the person receiving the deposit would be required to furnish such a bond.

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This played on my mind heavily at the start as I wasn't  (currently still not albeit I've paid half). But I swallowed the pill and just going with it. I negotiated better payment terms though as the SIPS supplier I chose didn't have as good terms as a competitor. 

 

I'm 9 months since order placement though and still no kit. Albeit have not been too worried about delivery as foundations running late. I was due to take delivery April 26th, but the SIPS company unable to get an erector and are unable meet that deadline, I don't even think they have started manufacture. I'm pouring concrete in 2 weeks, then I going to start pressing them to deliver. 

 

I'm not too impressed with my SIPS supplier at the moment, I'm hoping that the quality of the kit will make me happy in the end. Happy to share my supplier by PM and provide some opinions on suppliers you may have been looking at. 

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14 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

I don't believe you can insure but if you pay at least £100 on a credit card then the card company are jointly liable for the goods.

 

Isn't this (Section 75) cover limited to purchases up to £30k ?

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