MortarThePoint

Anchoring studding sole plate to concrete

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Posted (edited)

The vast majority of my walls are blockwork, but I wanted some walls as timber studding for the benefit of possible reconfiguration. None of the studwork walls is structural. We have precast concrete on GF and FF, insulation below the concrete. Anchoring the studwork wall sole plates on the first floor (FF) will be easy I expect. Either before or after screed, I envisage using a Masonry Torx Frame Fixing Screw (e.g. below at 7.5mm x 122mm) through the 4x2 and into the concrete. 600mm c/c?

 

On the ground floor (GF) it's more complicated. Immediately on top of the precast concrete we have a gas membrane. That means I can't drive a screw into the precast concrete. Thankfully there are only a few places I need studding walls. Below are extracts showing them. The screed will be 40-50mm thick so doesn't feel substantial enough to screw to (and I'd have to stop before the membrane).

 

The WC is the hardest I think and there is an almost 3m section. Before applying the screed, I could put a couple of timbers (4x2 flat laid) at right angles that follow the lines of the studwork walls. These timbers could be anchored to each other and to the walls at the ends. The timber has to be thin enough to pass under the WC door and Study door. I could do similar for the plant cupboard. Either side of the chimney is easier as I can just anchor to the walls at each end and it's only 1.6m. Does all this sound even vaguely sensible? I'm worried that there are long unconstrained sections that could bow or shift like a diaphragm. If I flow the screed up to the timber it is constrained but puts a lateral load onto the screed.

 

I wondered if there is a good approach using steel (e.g. RHS 100x50 laid flat) I could put along under these studwork walls with bolts pre installed to then tie the studwork down to. The steel would end up flush with the top of screed (but isolated from it by expansion strip).

 

 

image.png.11aebd226a64265ed33737c01b732430.png

 

image.png.33c0bfaf2d88efc607c7a0672f2fecdd.png

 

image.png.4ddc37b54e4a6c7bc9929a67ef4198a0.png  

 

image.png.4c5a6e4c496da71b866bca649d4522f4.png

Edited by MortarThePoint

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Can't you just leave them until you have screeded?

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Just now, Mr Punter said:

Can't you just leave them until you have screeded?

 

I'd be happy to, but I still need a plan 😃

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how would you fix the steel down? i cant see the difference

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I do not have a single screw anchoring my stud walls in place. 

All held down with a generous tube or two of PU adhesive. 

I needed to adjust one and dismantled the stud wall, I had to use a crowbar to get the sole plate up, and it actually pulled lumps out of the screed rather than coming unstuck.  

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59 minutes ago, markc said:

how would you fix the steel down? i cant see the difference

 

I was thinking it would be anchored to the walls at its ends using L-brackets or welded on flange plates.

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37 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

I do not have a single screw anchoring my stud walls in place. 

All held down with a generous tube or two of PU adhesive. 

I needed to adjust one and dismantled the stud wall, I had to use a crowbar to get the sole plate up, and it actually pulled lumps out of the screed rather than coming unstuck.  

 

This is great news. Blue Peter taught me how to do that sort of thing years ago.

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For reference, below is what the Structural Engineer specified for the top of partition walls:

image.png.f0bc30bb788a6591c8f81fd5f203bcb4.png

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On 09/04/2021 at 13:13, Russell griffiths said:

I do not have a single screw anchoring my stud walls in place. 

All held down with a generous tube or two of PU adhesive. 

I needed to adjust one and dismantled the stud wall, I had to use a crowbar to get the sole plate up, and it actually pulled lumps out of the screed rather than coming unstuck.  

 

Do you think this would work with a metal frame partition?

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1 minute ago, MortarThePoint said:

 

Do you think this would work with a metal frame partition?

Yes, bonding sole plates (internal) is fine and works very well

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Just now, markc said:

Yes, bonding sole plates (internal) is fine and works very well

 

Thanks Markc, Can you recommend a glue for metal Frame?

 

I was worried that the smallest amount of water would cause the galvanising to whiten and I think I recall it being pretty easy to pull that off.

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3 minutes ago, MortarThePoint said:

 

Thanks Markc, Can you recommend a glue for metal Frame?

 

I was worried that the smallest amount of water would cause the galvanising to whiten and I think I recall it being pretty easy to pull that off.

Morning i would use Gripfill or similar (needs to be thick and gooey). The metal plate will have holes and cut-outs etc which allow the adhesive to grab hold rather than actually bond the flat surface.

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6 minutes ago, Adrian Walker said:

Glue is your friend.

 

Unless you're Jim in American Pie

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