Wheelchair Access to new downstairs toilet

[8ball]

So I understand that creating a new downstairs toilet in my existing home will need to abide by some building regs one being in Part M that the door needs to be wide enough for wheelchair access(1981 x 838 x 35mm).

 

What I am struggling to understand is the requirement on the existing doors that lead through to the toilet as these are all 1981 x 760 x 35mm. I don't see any point in having the wider door at the toilet if the doors beforehand are narrower in size, have I missed something whilst reading through the 69 page document.

 

Ta guys

 

 

[Oz07]

How much work are you doing on your house? Is bco involved upto now? Put the 33" door on wc if you have/want to but you don't have to swap all the doors leading to

[Jeremy Harris]

9 minutes ago, 8ball said:

So I understand that creating a new downstairs toilet in my existing home will need to abide by some building regs one being in Part M that the door needs to be wide enough for wheelchair access(1981 x 838 x 35mm).

 

What I am struggling to understand is the requirement on the existing doors that lead through to the toilet as these are all 1981 x 760 x 35mm. I don't see any point in having the wider door at the toilet if the doors beforehand are narrower in size, have I missed something whilst reading through the 69 page document.

 

Ta guys

 

 

 

Not sure that you have to comply with the wheelchair access regs for just internal work - is the work notifiable to building control?

 

Common sense is usually applied anyway with renovation work, as there are lots of cases where it's just not practical to make an existing house compliant with Part M access regs.  The key bit of Part M that could apply (but only if you're doing major works I think) is that there should be a wheelchair access route from the parking or external entrance area into the house to the entrance floor WC.  Making the WC Part M compliant when the entrance to the house may well not be Part M compliant seems daft, and I think most building inspectors would agree that it doesn't make a lot of sense to do one area in isolation.

 

For a new build then it definitely applies, and was one of the two things checked thoroughly during our completion inspection.  If the work your doing requires BC sign off, then chat to your building inspector and get his view.

Edited February 15, 2017 by JSHarris

[8ball]

 

4 minutes ago, Oz07 said:

How much work are you doing on your house? Is bco involved upto now? Put the 33" door on wc if you have/want to but you don't have to swap all the doors leading to

 

I am creating a new downstairs loo/utility room and plan on submitting a building notice application, I have just started reading through what regs I will have to abide by and came across the wheelchair access which puzzled me

[8ball]

I am creating the toilet /utility room from scratch as I don't have a downstairs loo at present

[8ball]

7 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

Not sure that you have to comply with the wheelchair access regs for just internal work - is the work notifiable to building control?

 

 

 

From the reading and research I have completed so far I understand that I have to submit a Building Notice Application, this does not require any plans to be submitted but does require inspections by building control.

[Jeremy Harris]

8 minutes ago, 8ball said:

I am creating the toilet /utility room from scratch as I don't have a downstairs loo at present

 

Have a chat with BC and see what they say.  If you don't have Part M compliant doors en-route to the downstairs WC you're creating, or if the entrance door(s) to the house aren't Part M compliant, then frankly there seems little merit in going for full Part M compliance with the new downstairs WC/shower.  Often BC seem to accept "best endeavours" with areas like this, where the design doesn't meet the specific dimensions in Part M, but is close enough that they will deem that Part M has been complied with. 

 

An example is our downstairs WC in the new house.  It's about 50mm out in terms of the space there should be on one side, according to the drawing in Part M.  I pointed out that I'd deliberately placed the WC slightly closer to one wall as we have a wheelchair-using friend, and he came around and suggested that he'd find it easier if there was slightly more room the other side than Part M requires!  I felt his opinion carried more weight than Part M, spoke to the building inspector and he agreed.

Edited February 15, 2017 by JSHarris

[8ball]

1 minute ago, JSHarris said:

 

Have a chat with BC and see what they say.  If you don't have Part M compliant doors en-route to the downstairs WC you're creating, or if the entrance door(s) to the house aren't Part M compliant, then frankly there seems little merit in going for full Part M compliance with the new downstairs WC/shower.  Often BC seem to accept "best endeavours" with areas like this, where the design doesn't meet the specific dimensions in Part M, but is close enough that they will deem that Part M has been complied with. 

 

An example is our downstairs WC in the new house.  It's about 50mm out in terms of the space there should be on one side, according to the drawing in Part M.  I pointed out that I'd deliberately placed the WC slightly closer to one wall as we have a wheelchair-using friend, and he came around and suggested that he'd find it easier if there was slightly more room the other side than Part M requires!  I felt his opinion carried more weight than Part M, spoke the the building inspector and he agreed.

 

Thanks JSHarris I'll pop them an email and see if I can get a clearer answer.

[daiking]

My downstairs toilet in a new extension is not Part M compliant and no one raised an eyebrow as it in an existing house. So ask the question but you should be fine to do as you please.

 

FWIW, most of the internal doors are only 30" and a couple including the original bathroom, previously the only WC are only 27"! I probably couldn't even make the existing doorway, where the old house and new extension meet, the correct size for Part M.

[Mr Punter]

For part M, better to have a ground floor WC than not.  As long as your changes make it no more unsatisfactory than before, you are fine.

[Ian]

1 hour ago, 8ball said:

Quote

 

 

So I understand that creating a new downstairs toilet in my existing home will need to abide by some building regs one being in Part M that the door needs to be wide enough for wheelchair access(1981 x 838 x 35mm).

 

if you are modifying or extending an existing house and as long as you are not making the situation worse by eg removing a wheelchair accessible WC, Part M of the (English) Building Regs don't require you to design the new WC to comply with wheelchair accessible standards - effectively the regs only apply to new build.

 

Page 11 of this link:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20151113141044/http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/br_pdf_ad_m_2013.pdf

Edited February 15, 2017 by Ian

[8ball]

8 minutes ago, Ian said:

 

if you are modifying or extending an existing house and as long as you are not making the situation worse by eg removing a wheelchair accessible WC, Part M of the (English) Building Regs don't require you to design the new WC to comply with wheelchair accessible standards - effectively the regs only apply to new build.

 

Page 11 of this link:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20151113141044/http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/br_pdf_ad_m_2013.pdf

 

Thanks Ian, I had read through most of that 69 page document but as usual I get lazy and skim read. So many if buts and maybe's in those regs to drive any sane man crazy.

[Ian]

11 minutes ago, 8ball said:

 

Thanks Ian, I had read through most of that 69 page document but as usual I get lazy and skim read. So many if buts and maybe's in those regs to drive any sane man crazy.

No probs - it's partly what I do for a living and there are elements of the regs which are often 'grey' areas where different Building Inspectors interpret the regs in different ways. Eg I rang up a very experienced L.A. Building Inspector in London today for a judgement on the surface spread of flame regs for a job we're doing with them and he didn't know the answer - he's gone off to ask a fire specialist in their department.