MikeSharp01 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 We are having the devils own job getting a secure fix for our external cladding. It is essentially tile hung, same tiles as roof and there the vertical (31 deg) battens are fixed to the inner I-joist flanges with twist nails, as per the manufacturers details - no problem. They don't have details for doing the same thing when the construction goes vertical (they have told me this) a competitor may have a detail but they are taking an age to get back to me. I have looked at cladding type brackets but these are designed for cladding systems, generally frames that support cladding panels, rather than vertical battens that then support the horizontal tile battens. The insulation thickness on the outside is 40mm for the most part but 80 and 60 in places. The main insulation is the 300mm between the I-Joists. Does anybody have an clever ideas of how to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Not really understanding the problem, is it not a case of a longer screw 130mm x 6 mm through the battens, through the insulation, into the i joists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted March 14, 2021 Author Share Posted March 14, 2021 I think the problem is that the vertical battens are cantilevered from the I-Joists the insulation is not structural so the fixings have to; 1. support the weight of the cladding 40mm off the I joist (80mm & 60mm in some places) and 2. resist any wind pressure pulling the cladding away from (out of) the wall. The weight is about 24Kg / M2 (Each batten supports about 3m2) so not massive but the wind load is an important factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markocosic Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Put a horizontal batten that is the thickness of your compressed insulation near the ground to take vertical load. Preferably on the (cold) footings not as a thermal bridge to the (warm) studs. Screw fixings to take shear load. Put vertical strapping (e.g. 25*100 mm) on the wall. The bottom is fixed rigidly to the horizontal batten. The top is loosely screwed in for now. Slide your insulation panels behind it. And membrane if your using one that goes directly onto the insulation. Then screw through the vertical strapping into the studs. Compress your insulation the required amount when doing this. You now have vertical straps that can carry suction load (pulling away from wall) and vertical load (via that horizontal batten at the base) Now fit horizontal battens ON TOP of the screw heads. Screw these into the vertical strapping. By "clamping" the screw head that was attaching the vertical strapping you prevent pressure loads from pushing the vertical strapping into the wall. It also locks the vertical strapping together in a horizontal direction. Tile onto that. Variation: if your membrane doesn't go directly on top of the insulation then put the vertical strapping on first, then staple on your membrane, then put more vertical strapping on top to "lock" those first screws in. Then go horizontal on top of those. Another variation: if your insulation has some compression strength then you don't need the bottom horizontal batten. Just put your screws holding the vertical strapping on in at an angle (upward towards the studs) so that the screw is the tension member and the insulation is the compression member of a truss. (Rockwool USA approach) You can't nail in this application. Will dig out some photos... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markocosic Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 mineral wool over frame filled with soft mineral wool. The horizontal batten is in the foundation frame (footing) not the rim joist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markocosic Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Stacking insulation behind loose strapping (fix at 1200 centres first, then add the others later it makes adding the insulation easier) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markocosic Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Membrane and an extra layer of strapping variant. (ready for horizontal battens and in this case vertical cladding but tile.would.be similar) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markocosic Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 An earlier attempt without any horizontal batten. This works for lightweight cladding if fixing at 460 mm centres with 6mm screws. (we were going to use wriggly tin / bitumen originally then decided that it was just too ugly - the yanks use similarly lightweight vinyl siding) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markocosic Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Showing overlapping screw detail. First vertical batten can't come away from wall but can "over squash" the insulation. When you lock it in with the second horizontal batten the vertical one can no longer "slide further down the screw" because the head it locked against the horizontal batten. You need to take care how you drive your screws with this method (heads must be flush - countersunk but not buried deep into the first batten) Drip edges on vertical batten. We laid some bitumen in a "u" shape to protect the (external deck support) wood from water pooling on it. Not the best detail in hindsight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markocosic Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 You might find these useful: https://dmxsystem.com/en/group/wds https://www.varztupasaulis.lt/?gclid=CjwKCAiAmrOBBhA0EiwArn3mfNQLCp15vhFhjPkY8PQm5b-Hb6XhpSAtJ7PMB0vT2q_5A6cKgoUoeBoCJusQAvD_BwE&locale=en#!gid=a6f22c80-99ac-11db-8870-000423473dd4&details=3f33129c-e602-11ea-0480-000c2926ea9c&tab=1 It's a screw with one way barbs under the head. You screw it through the strapping and into the stud. The barbs grab the strapping. You can then screw it in/out and the barbs give you some pressure resistance - enough to walk on whilst you're building the roof without/putting the horizontal battens on anyway - whilst the heads give you suction resistance. I prefer physically locking the head by putting the horizontal battens directly on top of them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markocosic Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 And some other details we looked at when switching from lightweight to timber cladding: That "create a truss using screws" model can work in places where it's too difficult to put a horizontal batten in place. We ended up using one (which goes in place if the insulation - 45mm for 69mm nominal insulation) at the footings and one at the eaves of the roof. Much like the second image but on a smaller scale! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterTweeter Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 @MikeSharp01 Hi, I'm responding to your post because I think I'll be facing the same issue - having fallen down on the side of an external layer of insulation. I'm not sure I'm any the wiser regarding the solution @markocosic showed. However, I came across this document - published by Rockwool North America, that may be of some help. Search for "Rockwool cladding & support details". I haven't read it in detail, but it might be useful. A crucial problem for you is the loading - Rockwool would, I'm sure, regard tile hanging as "heavy". One route to support are "big buggerrr" lag screws ie mushroom head bolts like these https://www.toolstation.com/forgefast-construction-screw/p55793?searchstr=construction%20screw. Hope this helps P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now