NeilScotland

Solid conductor wire to 2 stranded circuits

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Hi all,

 

Sorry if I'm not using the right terminology - or if this should be in the lighting forum, I couldn't work out where it should be. 

I'm rewiring some lights in my shed - which already has a supply installed by the builders of the house. It has a basic tungsten light, and I'm replacing with two LED panels - which have transformers. 

 

I have done this with a block connector to test it out, but I'd like to know the correct practice to make this better /neater - preferably with a Wago connector or something (and then I'll put a little box in place to house this). 

 

- The supply comes in, L, N and Earth - it's a solid wire. circa 2.5mm (I'll check exactly).

- Supply has an earth - but the transformers don't... is this ok?

- The wire I'm taking to my transformer(s) is a stranded wire, circa 1.5mm. 

 

I'd like to take the supply, and then split it into two - and then have each light supplied from this - you can see my drawing below - hopefully make sense. 

 

Thanks for any help,

Neil 

 

 

Screenshot 2021-03-03 at 18.39.38.png

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Posted (edited)

2 of the Wagos with 3 terminals.

 

Don't connect the earth if there is none on the transformers.  Blues on one Wago, browns in the other.

Edited by Mr Punter
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Remember to put the wagos inside an enclosure/box

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Pity Wago don't do these:

 

[US$1.26 55% OFF]LT-933 Compact Wiring Cable Connector Push-in Conductor Splitter Terminal LED Strip from Lights & Lighting on banggood
https://banggood.app.link/WjLrXtmGkeb

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3 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

2 of the Wagos with 3 terminals.

 

Don't connect the earth if there is none on the transformers.  Blues on one Wago, browns in the other.

OK - that was my thinking..... I think my current waggo's are maybe too small.... because the solid wire wasn't staying. 

thanks! 

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7 minutes ago, NeilScotland said:

OK - that was my thinking..... I think my current waggo's are maybe too small.... because the solid wire wasn't staying. 

thanks! 

 

You have to use the lever Wago's not the push ones. Never had an issue with them coming out.

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5 hours ago, NeilScotland said:

The supply comes in, L, N and Earth - it's a solid wire. circa 2.5mm (I'll check exactly).

Ok, one issue at a time ;) 

First off, you cannot connect the lights directly to the 2.5mm cable if that is fed by a breaker bigger than 6a ( or 10a ) which a 2.5mm cable normally is fed by. So, the supply cable needs to be identified, as does the size of the circuit breaker servicing it before any comprehensive advice can be given here. If it turns out to be from a 6a circuit breaker then great, carry on as advised, but if not then you'll have to install a DP switched fused spur and fit that with a 3a or a 5a fuse accordingly to de-rate the incoming supply. Can you add that info first, please :) ? 

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9 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Ok, one issue at a time ;) 

First off, you cannot connect the lights directly to the 2.5mm cable if that is fed by a breaker bigger than 6a ( or 10a ) which a 2.5mm cable normally is fed by. So, the supply cable needs to be identified, as does the size of the circuit breaker servicing it before any comprehensive advice can be given here. If it turns out to be from a 6a circuit breaker then great, carry on as advised, but if not then you'll have to install a DP switched fused spur and fit that with a 3a or a 5a fuse accordingly to de-rate the incoming supply. Can you add that info first, please :) ? 

 

Hi Nick, 

thanks for the reply. 

 

I couldn't actually see which circuit this belongs to - since there doesn't seem to be a separate circuit (oddly enough) for the Shed - So I think it belongs to one of the others. I'll do some trial and error to find out - and report back.

 

The old light (fluorescent tube) was wired straight to the supply cable....  🙄   

thanks again for taking the time to respond,

 

Neil 

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If the shed has a feed large enough for sockets, then it should either have a mini consumer unit, or at the very least, a Fused Connection Unit with a 3A or 5A fuse for the lighting.

 

What about RCD protection? This shed could be a lot more dangerous than you think.

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Look for a fused spur inside the house maybe on the outside wall near / next to a socket. That’s a popular way to glean power for out buildings. 

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7 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Look for a fused spur inside the house maybe on the outside wall near / next to a socket. That’s a popular way to glean power for out buildings. 

Or a bit of flex just connected into the back of an innocent looking socket.

 

I am no longer surprised or shocked at the horrors I frequently find.

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I'll take some pics. but we recently had the house extended - and I remember seeing the cable that runs under the garden to the shed (was done as part of the building of the house 12 years ago).  It was a cable inside a PVC tubing (like a grey plumbing /drainage pipe). 

 

I should add, i'm in Amsterdam, their building practices here are a bit different. 

 

Neil

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55 minutes ago, NeilScotland said:

should add, i'm in Amsterdam, their building practices here are a bit different

Thanks for the heads up....Neil Scotland :D 

🤪

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haha - I know...... I'm not sure if i can change it or not. 
I'm originally from there (and actually have an electrical testing question relating to my house in Scotland that I'll be posting soon! haha)......

 

 

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Posted (edited)

OK.. so here are some pics. 

 

- 1st pic is the main CU / board

- 2nd pic - same but wider view - FYI

- 3rd pic the switches for light in the shed (other line is for outdoor light)

- 4th pic - this is the junction box where the supply that comes from the house goes into the shed (it's about 1m below the switch in pic above). 

- 5th pic - 'instructions' in Dutch. But has a diagram 

 

I've still to test which of these controls the shed. Can't do while Mrs is doing her work calls! - but I think 1 2 or 3 will control the power in the shed. 

 

thanks, 

Neil 

mainboard-min.png

Main board narrow-min.JPG

Shed - supply-min.JPG

Shed - supply from house-min.JPG

Screenshot 2021-03-04 at 13.24.39.png

Edited by NeilScotland

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14 hours ago, PeterW said:

 

You have to use the lever Wago's not the push ones. Never had an issue with them coming out.

Hi Peter, 

The wago I had was lever type - the cable was too thick. 

 

I'll measure properly. The problem is - the wago is perfect for the stranded wire but not for the solid wire. And Prob vice-versa.....

 

I could just use conductor block - but I like the neatness and quality of Wago. 

Neil 

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27 minutes ago, NeilScotland said:

Hi Peter, 

The wago I had was lever type - the cable was too thick.

 

The Wago 221s should work for solid and stranded - thick and thin.

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Looking at the last picture, the incoming supply to the shed splits to the sockets and lighting with no fusing.

 

I would expect at least a fuse or mcb for the lighting circuit.  I am not familliar with Dutch wiring, but there must be the equivalent to our Fused Connection Unit?

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16 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Looking at the last picture, the incoming supply to the shed splits to the sockets and lighting with no fusing.

 

I would expect at least a fuse or mcb for the lighting circuit.  I am not familliar with Dutch wiring, but there must be the equivalent to our Fused Connection Unit?

hmm - i guess not. This is original builders wiring. 

 

They do seem a little less stringent here. 

 

I’d have at the very least expected them to be on a separate circuit /rcd on the main board too. But doesn’t seem to be the case. 

 

 

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Most European wiring (at least here and in Germany) is run radially with mixed power and lighting off 16A RCBOs - possibly the same in The Netherlands?

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I think so. The groups seemed to be mixed. every time I think i’m turning the lighting circuit off, computers and stuff also go off. 

 

Mid i remember correctly, UK distinguishes between them?

 

still seems off the garden shed would just be seen as one of the plugs /lights on the circuit..... 

 

it is a properly constructed ‘shed’ - concrete base, stud wall construction etc - maybe it’s simple classed as part of the house.  

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We have similar here - both an outbuilding and external sockets are on the normal radial circuits. As is a socket next to the wash basin... As I don't read German well enough to understand the regs in force here I don't know if it's right, but that's how it is.

 

Yes, certainly in our UK house the lighting circuits are radial protected by 6A split by floor, and power (sockets) are wired as ring final circuits (ring main) protected by 32A also split by floor and kitchen - radials only used for high power items like shower and cooker. All I think typical, although I think radial circuits for power (sockets) are being used more often now.

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I did ask the electrician a few weeks ago why floors are intertwined - he said so that if one goes out - you can still get some light to get out the house...... 🙄

 

where in germany are you?

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Yep, in some ways it's a more sensible approach.

 

We're not actually in Germany (although I can see it from here) - we're in Luxembourg, right by the Mosel river which forms the border between the two.

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