nod Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 I’m being asked size of pipe required 25 mil litres per second required Can’t remember being asked tgat last time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamieled Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Who's asking? Needs a bit more info to figure it out. Pipe length, driving head etc all affect flow rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 1 hour ago, nod said: ... litres per second required ... I think that normal pressure is expressed as ' # Bar ' : generally between 1 and 2 Bar for domestic properties isn't it? If it's higher then a PRV may be needed. Got the wrong end of this stick haven't I? Again ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamieled Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 You're right, normally most water utilities quote on a minimum tap pressure of 1 - 2 bar. @nod 25ml/s seems low and an unusual way to spec, it would be worth questioning this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) when I first approached the local water company about a new connection they also asked me what I wanted rather than telling me we had to have. as I didn't know I put it all on a back burner but now we're getting near to needing to make that water connection application so this thread is very interesting for me! ps. I have made the assumption that @nod is asking for the pipe size for the connection to the water mains. if this isn't the case then, like @ToughButterCup, I too have got the wrong end of the stick Edited February 19, 2021 by Thorfun added the ps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 1 hour ago, jamieled said: Who's asking? Needs a bit more info to figure it out. Pipe length, driving head etc all affect flow rate. It’s the utilities company Im getting a quote for electric Water and Gas If applicable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Valley Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Just put my initial application in today for a quote for the water connection plus sewerage and drainage. Being the North West we are under United Utilities but they have not asked (at this initial point at least) what diameter pipe we require. As we are building within the garden of our current home I am hoping that most connections can be done from this site without having to go to the road and across a driveway owned by a neighbour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 9 minutes ago, Happy Valley said: Just put my initial application in today for a quote for the water connection plus sewerage and drainage. Being the North West we are under United Utilities but they have not asked (at this initial point at least) what diameter pipe we require. As we are building within the garden of our current home I am hoping that most connections can be done from this site without having to go to the road and across a driveway owned by a neighbour. Yeah we will probably go with NW water as they where the cheapest last time But these utility middle men are handy for getting an idea Plus they will plot out everything on a drawing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonner Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 50 minutes ago, Happy Valley said: Just put my initial application in today for a quote for the water connection plus sewerage and drainage. Being the North West we are under United Utilities but they have not asked (at this initial point at least) what diameter pipe we require. As we are building within the garden of our current home I am hoping that most connections can be done from this site without having to go to the road and across a driveway owned by a neighbour. I thought the same but both electric and water companies said I had to have a separate connection to their mains, on the other side of the road. Be prepared, it may not be as easy as you are hoping for ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Valley Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Bonner said: I thought the same but both electric and water companies said I had to have a separate connection to their mains, on the other side of the road. Be prepared, it may not be as easy as you are hoping for ... We have a right of way over the driveway owned by our neighbour for any reason to access all of the land that will be split in two. As to whether that gives us the right to dig it up to connect to services on the council owned road without recourse I don't know. Apologies to the OP for the thread drift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timedout Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 For a single home I have never seen larger than 25mm pipe. I doubt the water company will bring it to the meter in anything bigger. For anyone where the flow rate through a 25mm pipe is not enough I suggest you are using too much water. Turn down the volume, perhaps invest in some flow restrictors. My current refurb project has 3/8 black alkathene coming in with a static pressure of 4bar. That gives way more flow rate than necessary. I am planning to fit a pressure reduction valve. I have done it before and 1 bar is enough if you plumb internally in 15mm. I did one place at 3 bar and plumbed all the hot water in 10mm. Worked just fine and 2 bar would probably have been sufficient. 3/8 alkathene has internal diameter about the same as 15mm copper if you are wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Timedout said: For a single home I have never seen larger than 25mm pipe. I doubt the water company will bring it to the meter in anything bigger. For anyone where the flow rate through a 25mm pipe is not enough I suggest you are using too much water. Turn down the volume, perhaps invest in some flow restrictors. My current refurb project has 3/8 black alkathene coming in with a static pressure of 4bar. That gives way more flow rate than necessary. I am planning to fit a pressure reduction valve. I have done it before and 1 bar is enough if you plumb internally in 15mm. I did one place at 3 bar and plumbed all the hot water in 10mm. Worked just fine and 2 bar would probably have been sufficient. 3/8 alkathene has internal diameter about the same as 15mm copper if you are wondering. Our pipe down the lane from the Toby is just about a kilometre. The 32mm is well deserved here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, Timedout said: For a single home I have never seen larger than 25mm pipe. I doubt the water company will bring it to the meter in anything bigger. For anyone where the flow rate through a 25mm pipe is not enough I suggest you are using too much water. Turn down the volume, perhaps invest in some flow restrictors. My current refurb project has 3/8 black alkathene coming in with a static pressure of 4bar. That gives way more flow rate than necessary. I am planning to fit a pressure reduction valve. I have done it before and 1 bar is enough if you plumb internally in 15mm. I did one place at 3 bar and plumbed all the hot water in 10mm. Worked just fine and 2 bar would probably have been sufficient. 3/8 alkathene has internal diameter about the same as 15mm copper if you are wondering. I put 32mm in mine as pressure round here not so good. Only had 25mm previously in old house different area. Connection price is not much dearer at all. There was someone here if I remember correctly that had a 32mm connection and the water co. Fitted the wrong box. They got a hefty discount from memory like upwards of 75%. It's almost worth having the 32 connection just in hope that they use the wrong box, then you get massive discount! Edited February 20, 2021 by Oz07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Fyi I think my pressure is somewhere around 1.5/2 bar. Neighbours in old 30s place with that 3/8 supply literally cannot run a tap upstairs if downstairs was running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 14 hours ago, Timedout said: For a single home I have never seen larger than 25mm pipe. I doubt the water company will bring it to the meter in anything bigger. For anyone where the flow rate through a 25mm pipe is not enough I suggest you are using too much water. Turn down the volume, perhaps invest in some flow restrictors. My current refurb project has 3/8 black alkathene coming in with a static pressure of 4bar. That gives way more flow rate than necessary. I am planning to fit a pressure reduction valve. I have done it before and 1 bar is enough if you plumb internally in 15mm. I did one place at 3 bar and plumbed all the hot water in 10mm. Worked just fine and 2 bar would probably have been sufficient. 3/8 alkathene has internal diameter about the same as 15mm copper if you are wondering. My house was 80 metres from the road and I requested 32mm and it was not a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 so bigger pipe = higher water pressure? is it as simple as that as to what you request? I presume a 32mm connection will cost more than a 25mm though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Bigger pipe more flow rate not more pressure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 29 minutes ago, Oz07 said: Bigger pipe more flow rate not more pressure Will give a slightly better dynamic pressure ( with the bigger pipe ). The thing to understand here is that you will get X flow and static pressure at the mains connection point ( usually at the street ) and what you need to do is preserve that value where it arrives at your internal stopcock. So you look at the incline / length of pipe / straight or convoluted run etc and decide which size pipe is required to stave off the losses created by the pipe run. You want to get as close to the original values at the stopcock as possible, so the size is not relative to the supply, it's relative to what you need to not suffer significant losses from conveying it from street to house. If you're digging a trench anyways, then upgrading from 25mm to 32mm is a negligible increase in cost, and a wise investment in the future. Remember that in areas which may attract development the water authority may not improve, just add properties to, and then your connection dynamics may change. A bigger pipe makes complete sense, and is a great insurance policy too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 22 hours ago, nod said: I’m being asked size of pipe required 25 thousand litres per second required Can’t remember being asked tgat last time Length of run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Yep @Nickfromwales that's why I went 22mm copper over to manifolds then 15 or 10 from there. The garden tap is straight after stop cock and is fierce compared to my old place or neighbours. Around 20l per min Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted February 20, 2021 Author Share Posted February 20, 2021 18 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Length of run? 30 mtr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 1 hour ago, nod said: 30 mtr 25mm should suffice. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: A bigger pipe makes complete sense, and is a great insurance policy too. 36 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: 25mm should suffice. Hi @Nickfromwales. this is confusing me. first you say a bigger pipe makes complete sense and then say that 25mm should suffice. my run is also about 30m from the road to basement plant room and I'm all for future proofing stuff so I fail to see why you would want to go for the 25mm over the 32mm if there's no downside (apart from a bit of cost). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Water companies often fit small bore meters as standard. Apparently they are better at recording low flows. If you want a higher flow / larger pipe without the restriction at the meter they often have a much higher standing charge. If you need a sprinkler supply, have it as a separate pipe. Our water company like to fit a meter to these as well, just to make sure you are not nicking their water or leaking. In this case it is well worth specifying a large meter to guarantee flow rate. Fire supplies do no have a standing charge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 2 hours ago, Thorfun said: Hi @Nickfromwales. this is confusing me. first you say a bigger pipe makes complete sense and then say that 25mm should suffice. my run is also about 30m from the road to basement plant room and I'm all for future proofing stuff so I fail to see why you would want to go for the 25mm over the 32mm if there's no downside (apart from a bit of cost). My answer to @nod is because that’s the question he asked; On 19/02/2021 at 13:43, nod said: I’m being asked size of pipe required 25 mil litres per second required Can’t remember being asked tgat last time The size of pipe required to do a 30m run, typically, will sit at 25mm. If it was north of 50m then I’d look at upsizing, but the typical offering from the domestic water supply will be within the Fresno’s of the smaller pipe bring acceptable. My comments downstream were relative to the points made as the thread drifted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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