Bi Fold doors in the front of property.

[crampy]

Hi everyone, we've recently moved house to a great ex authority semi detached corner plot. The garden is huge which is great as we have 2 kids and love being outdoors. We've had plans drawn up for a side extension which includes bi fold doors at the front onto the South facing garden. The front garden is the biggest by far and at the back the doors would look onto a 6ft retaining wall with a 5 ft fence in it so it's the obvious best place for these doors to go. Planning are already unhappy because they don't like doors on the front and are suggesting we put them on the back. I'm wondering if anybody has any advice on bringing them round to our way of thinking? Any advice is very very much appreciated. Thankyou in advance.

[ProDave]

A site layout plan would help the understanding and and make more informed comment likely.

 

How about a compromise with the doors on the side?

[AliG]

The plans you have shown the council would really help.

 

Sounds like they are being pretty awkward though, hopefully you can go back to them with a robust argument.

 

Google street view is also useful for people to see why the council may or may not have an issue.

[crampy]

Thankyou for your replies, I've attached plans for you to have a look at. I also failed to mention that the local parish council have no objections and are actually looking forward to the property being nicely renovated and the local residents also have no complaints. Highways have visited the site and stated that we must provide a driveway of bound porous materials and make the grass verge between the boundary and the lane into a hard surface which we will be responsible to maintain (which was always the plan anyway). Thanks in advance for any advice I can get on this one because I really don't know how to swing this my way. The planning officer has told us that every application is based on it's own merit but has ignored our request for a site visit and a discussion. The only means of communication is email as she is working from home and won't supply a phone number so any dialogue is very limited. I'll try to post some photos of the garden area so you can get a better idea of scale/outlook.

20_0851_HHO-LAYOUT___ELEVATION_PLAN_-_EXISTING___PROPOSED-777658.pdf LOCATION_PLAN-777655.pdf ELEVATION___ROOF_PLAN_-_PROPOSED-777660.pdf

[crampy]

View from bi fold door position.

[ProDave]

This is in many ways similar to a previous house that we owned, on a similar corner plot also south facing to the front and only with a small north facing garden to the rear.

 

In our case we kept it "traditional" with a new bay window to the side extension to match the existing bay window.

 

I can see your reasons for wanting the doors at the front because you are treating that garden at the front as your main garden. You have a nice outlook there so can do so without feeling overlooked. Personally I would grow the hedge a bit taller.

 

At the moment you just have the opinion of one planning officer.  I would be inclined to dismiss their concerns and insist the planning application runs it's course.  It might be passed or it might not.  If it is rejected you have the option to amend it and re submit or even take it to appeal.

 

The only other option if it does get refused is windows to the front and your bifold doors to the side from the dining room for access to the garden.

 

Are there any other houses in the area that have a similar arrangement with doors to the front garden like you propose?  If you can find one it might strengthen your case.

[AliG]

I checked and it is not a conservation area. This really seems to me to come into personal opinion of the planning officer.

 

What exactly did he say, did he say no bifolds or no window? Bifolds and a window look the same and is not a planning issue that I can see. If he said a window was OK I would just change the plans  to a window and put in the bifolds.

 

If he is saying no window or bifolds, ask him what planning policy is driving this reasoning. I doubt there is one and if he stocks to his guns I agree with @ProDave just put in the applciation and take it to appeal if he turns it down without good reason.

[crampy]

Thanks for the replies guys, this is the email we received. Unfortunately there are no other properties that have the doors on the front as their main gardens are to the rear of the properties.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/evmCQ4xPoZu9izLy8 Here is the location on google maps if it helps but it seems you are both on the same side as me!!!!

 

 

Good Afternoon Both,

 

Having now received all the consultee responses and expiration of the neighbour notification period, I am pleased to confirm no objections have been raised to the above proposal.

 

In my final assessment of the proposed plans I note two amendments that are required, for the proposal to be acceptable:

 

1.       Removal of the bi-folding doors at ground floor on the front elevation. These are not in keeping in the street scene and a window to match that of the existing lounge would be more appropriate. Bi-folds on the rear elevation would be acceptable as an alternative if you wish.

2.       I note you have shown a set down and set back of the proposed two storey extension to the existing dwelling, however I do have concerns with the proposed width. Our SPD states that the width should be no more than half the width of the existing dwellinghouse. As a compromise, I am willing to accept a reduction by 1m, down to 4m. Consideration must also be given to the proposed further ground floor extension to the side, in combination with the proposed two storey element.

 

I apologise for the delay in getting in touch.

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Kind Regards,

[AliG]

I attach the SPD for the area

 

https://www.pendle.gov.uk/downloads/file/5489/design_principles_spd_-_adopted_spd

 

The problem you have is that corner plots allow the extension to be less than half the width of the original house whereas other plots allow the full width. I do wonder if you had a hedge like the house across the road so you couldn't see the site if that would help.

 

The SPD says the width of he extension is relative to the "frontage" of the house, if you include the utility type area, I am not sure if you have increased the width by more than half. A diagram showing the current width including this might help. You might also want to reference the double garage across the road which I think is as wide as the original house.

 

The windows are a tough one. They do make a few references to retaining street scenes and using similar windows. I personally am not a fan of the insistence that everything has to look the same but it does seem that almost all the other extensions have done this. Maybe changing the ground and first floor window to have three elements instead of four and match the width of the windows on the lounge side would be a decent compromise. Although for some reason looking at it I am not sure if this will look worse. I think you could also argue that the front of the current utility area does not match the front of the rest of the house anyway and this is an improvement. It also has a flat roof which they don't seem to like, so again you are improving this.

 

I always think that if you are willing to compromise a bit it helps, but you might just have to ignore them and see if they refuse it. You can appeal that, you would have a good chance of winning, and the worst situation would be you lose and then make a new application more how they would like it, not the end of the world.

 

 

 

[ProDave]

I would compromise, put normal windows on the front, a bifold on the end of the dining room, and run with it, taking it to appeal if necessary.

 

Perhaps later, could you convert windows on the front to doors under permitted development?

 

[crampy]

Thanks again guys, input is greatly appreciated. ProDave I'm pretty sure that bi folds under PD are only allowed at the rear or side (and maybe not the side of a corner plot).

 

AliG thanks for mentioning the side building. For some reason my partner and I weren't including that in the frontage, but i suppose it is the original frontage....  Just measured and we are at 10m  with that added on. 

 

I've got another question hopefully one of you could help with, I do find planning has a lot of causes and sub clauses.......

 

If I got planning passed for a 5m double extension without the further single extension, could I then extend the back of the house out by a couple of meters (single story) on the existing house and also on the extension?  I know this is permitted development on the existing house but does applying for planning change/cancel PD?  Hope this makes sense?   Also bi fold doors on the side is a possibility if we move the driveway to the front of the house. But......   will they allow bi folds on the side of a corner plot?

[ProDave]

When I was developing our house on a similar plot, it was the building line of both streets that was the constraint with the planners.

 

I started by getting PP for a detached garage, that went outside the building line of both streets, that was because I did not want to use up the best bit of garden for a garage.  I won that on appeal.  After that the extension, well within the building line of both streets was easy.

[AliG]

PD Rules

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/830643/190910_Tech_Guide_for_publishing.pdf

 

PD applies to the "original" house. You cannot build to the side on a corner plotter more than half the width of the original house if the extension extends past the side wall of the original house under PD so you would fail PD under two rules.

 

They can also remove PD when they give you permission.

Edited February 15, 2021 by AliG