Guest Alphonsox Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) Following on from a number of threads discussing electric UFH Can anyone recommend a particular make for 1.5m2 of under-tile electric UFH. The easy-to-get ones would be the Klima kits from Screwfix but I know nothing about them. Any other suggestions ? http://www.screwfix.com/p/klima-underfloor-heating-mat-kit-2m/54047 Edited February 9, 2017 by Alphonsox Add search tags ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) I've looked at these and they are pretty decent Warm Star eBay Think @Nickfromwales recommended them but can't be sure...! [Just looked and 2m2 is £56 with a touch screen stat) Edited February 8, 2017 by PeterW Link 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I've slept a lot since then . Looks a good wire, and that's where the consideration must be as that's buried under your expensive tiles. The controllers are all generic so don't matter a jot TBH. Still, I'd heartily recommend going for the intuitive / smart Warmup stat as it is self-learning so will switch on / off according to warm up and cool off delays / overruns so will save you on energy bills. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 42 minutes ago, PeterW said: I've looked at these and they are pretty decent Warm Star eBay Think @Nickfromwales recommended them but can't be sure...! [Just looked and 2m2 is £56 with a touch screen stat) Hmm interesting. I note that this listing seems to say its fine under carpet. Thus this could be a viable alternative to the planned electric rads in the 3 beds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Looks very similar to the stuff I laid around 10 years ago, under the floor tiles in the bathroom of our old house. Different controller, but the mat looks the same and the name rings a bell. Ours has never been any trouble at all, it just seems to work. Not cheap to run, but if only used for "comfort heating" of the floor, to stop it feeling cold, then it's not too bad. We don't use it for heating really, though, as the big heated towel rail plumbed in to the heating system provides loads of heat, the electric UFH is just timed to warm the surface of the tiles when we're using the shower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alphonsox Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 It will be mainly used for comfort, underfoot warming rather than outright heating - I have towel rails as well. I intend to time this to run with the E7 period so costs should be reasonably well contained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Best to mention that for PH levels you certainly want as low a wattage per m2 as possible. 100w is acceptable, 50w would probably suffice TBH, but I'm not sure of the availability at that power rating for the various applications. @Barney12 There are foil type ( nearly completely flat ) versions for under carpet fitting Click on the 'Description' tab here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnW Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I'm surprised that you guys are discussing/considering/have used electric UFH. I appreciate that it's just to take the chill off the tiles, but surely there's a better way other than Electric?? It seems to fly in the face of low-energy house or Passive House thinking. Signed, Confused from NI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 On 2/8/2017 at 12:13, JohnW said: I'm surprised that you guys are discussing/considering/have used electric UFH. I appreciate that it's just to take the chill off the tiles, but surely there's a better way other than Electric?? It seems to fly in the face of low-energy house or Passive House thinking. Signed, Confused from NI The problem is that a material like tile, when it is at room temperature, will still feel a little cold on bare feet because it conducts heat away. It would have to be closer to skin temperature to prevent this, and in a PH such a large heated surface would massively overheat the whole building. So you can heat it using an efficient wet system, but if all you want is five minutes of warmth whilst someone is using the shower, it may well use less energy to just use direct electric heating, rather than cycling on a full CH system- which would have to run for longer due to a slower response time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Oh and can I ask a related question... I gather it's necessary to bond down UFH mats. I'll be using bamboo flooring over a suspended chipboard floor, so any sort of adhesive will need to deal with the slight flexing of the floor. I'm wondering if this is a job for some sort of Sikaflex product, or whether flexible tile adhesive would be suitable? If the former, that could add considerably to the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alphonsox Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Crofter said: So you can heat it using an efficient wet system, but if all you want is five minutes of warmth whilst someone is using the shower, it may well use less energy to just use direct electric heating, rather than cycling on a full CH system- which would have to run for longer due to a slower response time. The energy isn't lost either - It remains within the thermal envelope and will be (slowly) redistributed by the MVHR system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 3 hours ago, PeterW said: I've looked at these and they are pretty decent Warm Star eBay Think @Nickfromwales recommended them but can't be sure...! [Just looked and 2m2 is £56 with a touch screen stat) That's who I used. Bought their 100W/m2 mats and 6mm tile backer board. They were good quality and stuck down quite well, tiler said that the more expensive mats were not as easy to work with. They are warrantied to a degree but you're not covered for consequential losses if they fail (i.e. replacing tiles etc). The more expensive brands seem to offer this but I'd hope that once they are in and latexed & tiled over, they're unlikely to go wrong. Make sure you get a digital multimeter to test & record the resistance of the mats at each stage of the process (wrapped, unwrapped & installed) and then use the alarm box during install to ensure they're not damaged during latexing or tiling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alphonsox Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Thanks for all the input - Mat kit ordered from WarmStar - Ebay store. Free 2 day delivery to NI as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 8 hours ago, Crofter said: Oh and can I ask a related question... I gather it's necessary to bond down UFH mats. I'll be using bamboo flooring over a suspended chipboard floor, so any sort of adhesive will need to deal with the slight flexing of the floor. I'm wondering if this is a job for some sort of Sikaflex product, or whether flexible tile adhesive would be suitable? If the former, that could add considerably to the cost. I bonded our bamboo down to OSB upstairs and concrete with UFH downstairs with Sikaflex 95, a modified silicone polymer. It's very, very good indeed, and really makse for a solid feeling floor upstairs, and seems to deaden the sound transmission a bit too. One snag - you'll need to be sitting down when you ask the price.................................. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I know Sikaflex well, being a boat owner. Hopefully the builders' stuff is a bit less eyewatering than the marine version From what you've said before, it's best to bond down the bamboo rather than having it floating. So whilst this is pretty much a done deal, I'm yet to cost up UFH vs simple panel heaters (or, rather, cost up just how much more UFH will be). Will the use of UFH mean I need more Sika? And will I need those insulation boards that are sold for the electric mats? The floor makeup, by the way, is 22mm chipboard over 300mm rockwool between engineered joists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I'm guessing you'll need to allow for the 3mm mat thickness, so yes a bit more Sikaflex, I'm afraid............ This stuff isn't like the PU based boat stuff, it's a modified silicone polymer, similar to CT1. I don't think you need worry about any more insulation, if it were me then I'd just bond the mat and bamboo down to the chipboard. It's a tiny bit easier to work with than the boat stuff, too, as it comes in big drums (around 10kg IIRC). I have a feeling I paid around £80 per drum, and used around 10 drums of the stuff.............................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Blimey this could get expensive. My backup plan is to not bother with UFH in the kitchen/living room and maybe fit a plinth fan heater, plus there is of course the woodburner in that room, and waste heat from cooking, TV, etc. That would halve the area of UFH needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Try this stuff - I used a small tin of it to bond some timber to a concrete wall and it's impossible to remove 18 months later and that is outside ...!! http://www.bambooflooringcompany.com/ever-build-lumberjack-650-adhesive-14kg.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 8 hours ago, PeterW said: Try this stuff - I used a small tin of it to bond some timber to a concrete wall and it's impossible to remove 18 months later and that is outside ...!! http://www.bambooflooringcompany.com/ever-build-lumberjack-650-adhesive-14kg.html Everbuild website suggests minimum of 0.5kg/m2, I'll drop them a line and see what they suggest when UFH is involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 That looks good, wish they'd had it when we bought our flooring from them, as all they offered then was Sikabond 95 (and I've checked, the Sika stuff I used was called Sikabond, sorry for the error earlier with the name) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I used sika95 on my floor and I was great but expensive ..! It's only when the guy I put the cladding up for hadn't got anything else that we used the Everbuild stuff. He's put oak down with it and it's great (despite the gaps as he set his saw wrong but that's another issue ...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 So had an email back from Everbuild this morning. They recommend using 'Febflor Heatflex' instead of the Lumberjack product. Comes in powder form, around £20 for a 20kg bag which will do 2.4m2 at 5mm thickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, Crofter said: So had an email back from Everbuild this morning. They recommend using 'Febflor Heatflex' instead of the Lumberjack product. Comes in powder form, around £20 for a 20kg bag which will do 2.4m2 at 5mm thickness. Odd ... that is for ceramic tiles normally on wooden floors, not for wood floors onto wood sub floors. Have they misunderstood the question ..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I reckon they have misunderstood the question, as I'm not at all sure that stuff would bond bamboo, as the underside of bamboo flooring is pretty shiny; ours was varnished/lacquered all over, both top and bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Clarification from Everbuild: "I can also confirm that Heatflex is suitable for wooden flooring on top. Please read the instructions for the Lumberjack 650 for moisture content requirements as well as the requirements of the wood floor supplier. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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