Can I lean on the experiences you guys have learnt

[Sally]

Hi There

 

This is my first post on the forum,  and so, Hi people 

 

I have a large workshop that I have secured both planning permission for change of use to domestic and I have been given planning to raise the roof to make living space in the loft,

for the planning, I used a friend to do the Architectural drawings, all though this is his line of work, I shouldn't keep asking for help and now want to do as much as possible my self, as I simply have a very tight budget 

 

What are my next steps I need to do ???

 

what comes first, second etc etc 

 

do I now need structural drawings, or drawing for building regs 

 

what is the order of doing things 

 

many years ago, I dug a test pit beside a wall to see the footing, the property sits on clay, and has a footing one foot deep, its has three tears of brick, each tear steps out half a brick so at the base, is approx two foot wide, it is a solid 9 inc wall 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Sally

[Jilly]

Well done, you've done one of the most difficult parts. It sounds very similar to my project (stable conversion) without some of the constraints I had (bats and conservation area) (apart from not enough money).

 

Don't rush, research everything well, as there are loads of unexpected things you can find out too late, it's a really steep confusing learning curve, as conversions have problems which need solving.  

 

Building regs are submitted with structural drawings, so are done working together. I would advise staying with the same architect for these drawings and ask them for structural engineer recommendations. You'll have to think about build method but the existing building, plus planning conditions may give constraints.

 

However, if you haven't already,  you need a structural engineer to do a survey to ascertain how to make the building structurally sound for residential use, there might be more than one way to achieve this. You even might decide to apply for demolition and rebuild.

[SimonD]

Hello Sally,

 

Welcome and congrats on getting planning permission.

 

I'd suggest that your next step is to develop the planning drawings into construction drawing essentially so that you (and any builder) knows what and how you're going to build it.

 

You will most likely need a structural engineer to draw up a structural scheme as part of this. Best thing to do is talk to your architecture friend and ask if they know or could recommend anybody to do the detailed designs for you.

 

HTH

[Sally]

SimonD

 

this is exactly the information and guidance I was looking for 

 

many thank and also to Jilly 

[joth]

34 minutes ago, Sally said:

I have a large workshop that I have secured both planning permission for change of use to domestic and I have been given planning to raise the roof to make living space in the loft,

 

 

Adding to what Jilly mentioned, does the PP stipulate the existing building myst be retained at all? Is there anything of historic / architectural note about it motivating you to retain it?

Otherwise you should very much keep an open mind to the option of demolish and rebuilding it. So long as you keep within the envelope approved under your existing PP it might even already allow this ? (Others may have experience).

A rebuild will mean it is VAT free, and will allow you to achieve a much higher quality end result. This in turn leads to long-term money savings (reduced heating bills, reduced mainenance from any structural compromise from building on existing footings, etc)

 

The VAT saving should not be underestimated; when you start to think about 20% off all the plumbing, electrical, kitchen, bathroom, paint, flooring, external landscaping, etc etc if could easily payback the cost of rebuilding what's there.

 

 

 

 

[Sally]

Joth 

 

This is something new to me, I was un aware of the vat saving 

I will DEFIANTLY look into this option as it does make some sense 

[Jilly]

A conversion only attracts 5% VAT (make sure your contractor will do this). I think someone said I can claim that back too, but I'm no where near that point!). 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Jilly

[Sally]

from the little I have just read, I may be able to claim the vat back as my project was a commercial property being converted to domestic and is for my use (home) 

 

so it may or may not be beneficial to knock it down and start again as I am entitled to claim the vat back anyways 

[Declan52]

What do the drawings show??

If possible you could use the existing footprint and add enough floor insulation to get you above building regs. Have you any requirements with heights to make sure your not a lot higher than what's beside you.

[SteamyTea]

You will need a structural engineer to assess the foundation.

At 300mm thick you may well have to dig it up.

But then you can dig deeper and get some insulation in.

Do you need a land contamination survey?

[Jilly]

The building regs for a conversion are less strict (but that's not necessarily a good thing). 

[Onoff]

Learn to plaster, pay a tiler. 

[ToughButterCup]

4 hours ago, Sally said:

...

what is the order of doing things 

...

 

It doesn't matter. Start your planning anywhere. You will soon identify your own constraints - things that have to be worked on first. 

Can I suggest some form of list system - one that works for you? There are loads out there. And then there's - ermmmm, paper.

 

Theres no point in amassing vast amounts of information without being able to access it when needed - quickly.

[Temp]

6 hours ago, Sally said:

do I now need structural drawings, or drawing for building regs

 

You will need a package of drawings, possibly including structural drawings and calculations for the Building Control Application. 

 

6 hours ago, Sally said:

many years ago, I dug a test pit beside a wall to see the footing, the property sits on clay, and has a footing one foot deep, its has three tears of brick, each tear steps out half a brick so at the base, is approx two foot wide, it is a solid 9 inc wall 

 

1)  Building Control Approval

 

The normal process would be to hire an "Architect", "Architectual Technician" or "Plan drawer" to "Obtain Building Control Approval to start work". They all have similar skills but an Architect has done 5 years of training and is going to be the most expensive. The exercise involves them producing the necessary drawings and supporting documents, making the Building Control Application and making any changes necessary to get Building Control Approval. 

 

Given your description of the foundations its very likely that this person will need support from a Structural Engineer (SE). I mean the person drawing the plans will need support, not necessarily the foundations although they might. SE are frequently used to design foundations and any structural beams needed.

 

Most people capable of drawing up plans for Building Control will be able to recommend an SE as they often have to work closely. 

 

What I would do is find a few reasonably local people to quote for the work. Perhaps suggest they meet you for a site visit with their recommended SE?

 

2) Construction Drawings.

 

Frequently a builder can build the house from the same drawings submitted for Building Control Approval. However if there is anything unusual or specific to the design then some additional Construction Drawings might be needed. We needed some for the steel work in our roof. The Building Control drawings and any construction drawings can be given to a Builder to quote against. 

 

In your case its possible the SE might advise that the building be underpinned and he could draw up a "Method Statement" that you could use to contract with a builder should follow. It might not be necessary but see what the SE and Building Control say.

 

3) Quotations and Builders 

 

I would suggest getting three people to quote at least. Ideally go and visit one or two of their previous projects (not their mothers house!) AND the site they are currently working on. I actually found my builder by visiting sites, telling them i was looking for a builder  and asking to look around. Nobody refused but that was pre-covid. I always asked for a business card even if I was tempted to throw in in their skip on the way out. Ask questions. If you get answers that begin "Oh I wouldn't worry about that, we take care of it all" then those are the ones to worry about. You want straight answers. 

 

You can sometimes get a "steer" from local builders merchants if you visit in person... wait till you are the only one at the counter and.. "I'm new in the area and looking for a builder, I've been given these three names, are there any you wouldn't want working on your Mums house ? ?" They obviously won't give you a formal response but just look at their face when you mention a name. Some builders are infamous.

 

When builders quote they frequently include Provisional Sums for things you haven't specified. For example the windows or the Kitchen. Before rushing to sign up the cheapest quote you need to check that they have all used the same figures for the Provisional Sums. That's unlikely so you have to adjust the total to allow a fair comparison. Anyone can give you a cheap quote by budgeting £500 for the whole kitchen instead of £5,000. Some may have included painting walls, some not etc.

 

If the SE says you need underpinning then you could consider hiring a Builder to do just that, check the work is done well and to spec and then decide if you want to hire him for the rest of the project.

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Temp

[Temp]

2 hours ago, Onoff said:

Learn to plaster, pay a tiler. 

 

In my case it would be the other way around. I find tiling easier than plastering. Each to their own.

[Sally]

Temp,

 

many kind thanks for your time, your reply is very useful, 

[Gus Potter]

Hi Sally.

 

As Jilly etc allude to it's well worth getting an SE in as early as you can.

 

What you descibe is often called a corbelled brick foundation. You'll often find these. For example up in Glasgow area these can be found in houses / some farm buildings etc predating circa 1930's say.

 

Although the founds may seem shallow (yes they are not deep enough to comply with the modern general guidance for frost cover) they may well be fine. There are a lot of different types of clay, some rock solid that can easily take a bit of extra load, some less so. Also with clays you can sometimes get a "crust". This is where the top layer is stiffer than the underlying clay. Sometimes on new build we can take advantage of this and sit the founds in the crust, the load spreads out as you go deeper thus when you get to say a softer layer of clay the stress on this softer deeper layer is reduced.

 

What this means in practice is that sometimes you are best to leave the soil under the founds undisturbed.. no underpinning etc. As SE will look at the existing structure, see if it has moved about.. or not and may conclude that it is best "left alone". To avoid adding extra load to the outside existing walls you can sometimes transfer some of the extra load arising from the new floor down inside the building to keep it away from the existing walls. This can be easier to control cost wise compared with underpinning etc.

 

Taking a pragmatic approach early can pay dividends. At some point you may well need to pay an SE, so a bit extra spent early on (SE fee) can really be worth while.