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Replacing a tile: not as easy as I thought... hence this post


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27 minutes ago, JFDIY said:

Going back to the roofing ladder, could you approach from the others ide so hooks aren't on solar panels? Are the panels ok for a distributed load from ladder - just out of interest?

 

He not going to use the roofing ladder now he has this bad boy on hire

 

1 hour ago, ToughButterCup said:

picker.jpg.21bafc29d3c0e96a2270649f307a9605.jpg

 

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To fix a roof tile from that, you will be laying down on the floor of the thing leaning out and down between the railings. It will not be the most comfortable working position.  Hopefully it won't take long.

 

Before stumping £140 for that, I would have asked a roofer to quote to replace the top hard to reach tile, pointing out the solar panel issue to him.  He might have had a selection of roof ladders, perhaps one that has a shorter hook so would not have touched them?

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16 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

 

He not going to use the roofing ladder now he has this bad boy on hire

 

 

image.png.3f8f7092c927817866a6b97200a882b4.png Disappointed you did not ask me to help you Ian, could have got this from Morecambe Fire Station if you had only contacted me!

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Here's the promised piccies.

 

A general view - you can see the problem area because its (the cracked tile)  above part of the house that we have not underboarded with 100mm of insulation yet (already 200 between joists) : all the ice on the roof has melted and the roof has started to dry off - but the rest on the North face is still iced up. The south face (out of sight) is already dry and almost hot to touch.

20210106_113321.thumb.jpg.8ff758b0bf234e1c9bc569c72ea08d1b.jpg

 

A bit closer in reveals that the broken tile is smack in the middle of the dry patch, right on the ridge over 2 meters in  from the edge of the house. 

 

crack.thumb.jpg.00978fdf01a0049ab22df445e36161cd.jpg

The part of the roof on the right - in bright sunlight -  was appreciably warm to the touch. You can also see how close the solar panels are.

 

20210106_124236.thumb.jpg.0d15086ad9977a1a279fe3d953cfc6ed.jpg

It was so nice up there, I took this photo facing East towards the M6 - which is just out of sight. For a few days during the first Lockdown we had an Osprey fishing in that - now iced - pond: he flew past me (working on the roof)  at head height, completely unconcerened.

 

Now for the bad news.

Reaching down to the cracked tile was  easy: " Assume the position and push, lad " an old instructor used to hiss while we were shivvering with fear and  training to parachute from balloons. Flat on my tummy, head shoulders chest out of the basket.  Praying that Debbie wasn't watching me hang out of the basket over the roof. She was. ?

 

That tile will be out in a few seconds, I thought.  Shove hard upwards. You're probably there before me ... all I did was displace the basket (to the left in this case)  by an amount equal and opposite to the effort I put into the shove.  Bastard.  Newton's Third Law innit. Bummer.

 

Again, harder. Same thing

Hang on to the ridge with one hand shove the tile with the other. There are times when I wish I was built with shoulders like an American Oarsman, but my upper body strength isn't what it was - and I never was that strong.

It is such an easy job off a scaffold. Two hands, push up on the bottom of the tile, it pops out of its clips,  throw the bits away (satisfying smash sounds - tom cat goes haring off into the hedge) and replace with the new one thats in the bag you take up with you. 

 

Down. Tea. Biscuit. Think.

 

Pop out to the stillage, get some DPM, lead and lead-replacement , a hammer a knife and some snips .

Back up.

Will the lead get under the crack? Will it heck.

Will the lead replacement get under the crack. Nope.

30 second job to shove the DPM under the crack and cut to size.20210106_124345.thumb.jpg.e65c008e5b2a0fdbc68070b380475b4c.jpg

 

What have I learned, what's still puzzling and what's next?

 

If you are operating 6 meters up and 3 meters to the side of the CofG of a cherry picker, the basket sways (almost as much as a microlight in a gale).

 

If you are working across yourself (pushing sideways) the basket will duplicate the opposite of that movement.

 

The problem may still have two sources : a rip in the felt ( a split tile shouldn't on its own give rise to a leak) and the cracked tile

 

Hire a cherry picker with proportional controls. In nil wind, I could put the basket almost exatly where I wanted to with ease (and no training). Proportional control means that inputs to the control levers gives proportional output. A gentle smooth nudge means gentle movement. Gross input means larger movements. 

 

Why did the tile crack at all?  Hmmm ? Temperature contrast? Its not underboarded below crack ( see image above) . Osprey crapping on it? 

 

Maybe the felt is touching the insulation between the joists and the water is wicking through the felt to the surface foil on the insulation - and dribbling downhill?

 

Whats next?

Design a proper roof ladder for this house, build, test and use along the lines suggested by Ed ( see earlier post in this thread)

Buy 4 long scaff poles to  use as vertical struts (adapt diagonal braces?)  thanks @Construction Channel ,  so I can brace the scaffolding firmly so it doesn't move away from the side of the house.

 

What have I missed?

Edited by ToughButterCup
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Did the crack in the tile appear just after the ridge tiles were screwed down. The crack appears to line up with the join in the ridge tiles. Could you unscrew or loosen the ridge tiles as they may be holding the cracked tile a lot more firmly than they are held further down the roof.

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2 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

Did the crack in the tile appear just after the ridge tiles were screwed down...

 

No, not at the time, but maybe, yes.

I might have tweaked it tight enough to cause an almost invisible fracture, which (after two winters) opens enough to let a bit of water through.

Brilliant thought Pete. That hangs together in my mind .....

Thanks a lot.

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Yes, as Peter says, release those ridge tiles and have a proper look. When our builder was slating our roof he tapped each slate with his hammer before he fixed them, when i asked he said sometimes the slate has been stressed and will crack later (frost/heat) so a tap with the hammer will break  them before they are fixed.

Edited by joe90
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8 minutes ago, joe90 said:

... so a tap with the hammer will break  them before they are fixed.

 

Yer a star Joe + Pete.

I was worrying about why just the one..... so when i get a proper roof crawling ladder, I'll tap them all and give each a long hard stare.

You've both been a big help. Thanks very much indeed.

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Surely to remove this tile with no effort you just lift off 2 ridge tiles and the broken tile will just lift off won't it?

 

A proper hook over roof ladder will work if you either choose one with a very short hook, or buy one and shorten it so it does not reach the solar panels.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Surely to remove this tile with no effort you just lift off 2 ridge tiles and the broken tile will just lift off won't it?

 

In theory yes. 

But operating from that basket that far in from the edge - with the basket swaying quite as far as it did - '... just lift(ing) off 2 ridge tiles ...' was more than I thought  prudent. I have a stop-gap measure in place which might just last a bit until we have a decent weather window to get the job done pukka. 

 

Now I just need to make up a workable roof ladder . What could go wrong?  Edward ! ! 

Edited by ToughButterCup
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8 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

... how Nasa train astronauts to space walk - they have the same problem....

 

I haven't flown my microlight for a while now, but the gyrations that the cockpit does under a microlight's  flex-wing take some getting used to. I managed that (so do most people I understand)  by concentrating hard on the job in hand : I used the same technique on this contraption. Focus on the job, and you forget all the butterflies and the disorientation caused by the unexpected movement. Same in a yacht on  confused waves.

 

But it's not pleasant, thats for sure.

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1 hour ago, ToughButterCup said:

Now I just need to make up a workable roof ladder

Before now I have strapped a piece of 4x2 to the top of a ladder and tucked it over the ridge and back end of ladder on a scaffold tower. I know ladders are not supposed to be used this way (I am only 9 stone) but it’s worked for me (but i ignore H@S ).

image.jpg

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1 hour ago, ToughButterCup said:

Now I just need to make up a workable roof ladder . What could go wrong?  Edward ! ! 

 

Just get a ladder long enough for the job. Something to stop it slipping and a pad for the top. The pipe lagging down each side also sounds like a good idea but i have never tried such luxuries. Nothing could possibly go wrong, i have faith. 

 

Im glad to hear you got on with the machine though. I know a fair few people that wont get in the things because of the sway. 

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4 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

Focus on the job, and you forget all the butterflies and the disorientation caused by the unexpected movement. Same in a yacht on  confused waves.

 

 

I know what you mean. On the 27th when that storm struck the UK I was up on my tarpaulin covered roof in the dark being buffeted by gale force gusts and my thought, "the last time I had such an adrenaline rush was solo sailing to France when my boom disconnected from the mast at 1am".

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