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New Washing Machine v. New Generator - not working


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I admit in advance that I know very (very!) little, but I'll give all the info I can think of in the hope that someone can help:

 

We live in a static caravan completely off-grid in Scotland. It'll be 2+ years before we can go for house planning, so in the meantime it's a generator. There's a new small wind turbine waiting to be put up when the digger etc. can get in. Hope to have solar as well.

 

We have a Clarke 3kw petrol generator (https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-pg3800a-euro-5-3kva-single-voltage-230v/?da=1&TC=GS-010617852&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-4Hbu6iC7gIVGevtCh3oBQy5EAQYAyABEgJKWvD_BwE) that goes to 4 x 12v 120ah AGM in a 2s 2p layout. It runs everything just fine as a rule, however the new Hotpoint washing machine won't work on it. The washing machine engineer tested the electrics and said the live and neutral was reversed, but he's not an electrician so couldn't say anything more than that. Initially only the inverter was earthed (via a stake) and now we've earthed the genny (also via a stake), but it's not made any difference.

 

The washing machine was being run direct off the generator not via the inverter. We've tried off both the Clarke and the spare genny (a Hyundai 2.2kw generator), with the same result, i.e. washing m/c saying F6 (note: it does start, but then stops and throws up the error). We've also tried different power extension cables in case that was causing an issue.
 
A socket tester of the 3kw gen shows 'live neutral reverse', which it also shows in the sockets in the static caravan (the washing machine is out in a shed), other than one socket where the tester couldn't make up its mind. All the electrical items in the static caravan work fine, including laptops, tv, etc.
 
When I spoke to both the Clarke repair shop and our own local repair place, they both said the issue was due to the gen having a 'floating earth' and that's just how they're made.
 
Our next plan is to try the washing m/c plugged direct into the inverter. Husband says it'll drain the batteries very quickly so even if it works it's not a sustainable option.
 
We had another washing machine and an engineer out to it - the engineer's tests didn't show an issue with the electrics then; and, we had an electrician out to check all the electrics not long after we got the static caravan and he didn't find any issues with it.
 
Anyone have any suggestions on what we can / should do with any of this? The thought of not having a proper washing machine for the next couple of years is not filling me with joy.
 
Edited by MrsMozart
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21 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Is the generator a pure sine wave one?  Probably not.

The washing machine electronics may not like anything else.

 

Is the inverter big enough, and is that also a pure sine wave one?

 

Husband says: the Hyundai is a pure sine wave one, but it didn't like that. The Clarke isn't a pure sine wave. He doesn't know if the inverter is or not, though it's a 4kw so yes, big enough - it's due to rain/snow here tomorrow but dry on Wednesday so we'll try it direct from the inverter then.

Edited by MrsMozart
Missed a space.
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6 minutes ago, MrsMozart said:

it's due to rain/snow here tomorrow but dry on Wednesday so we'll try it direct from the inverter then.

Hopefully @ProDave will be along before then, he knows about this sort of thing better.  And hot to earth things to stop the voltage floating.

There are different electrical regs for caravans and outside stuff from generators.

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8 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Hopefully @ProDave will be along before then, he knows about this sort of thing better.  And hot to earth things to stop the voltage floating.

There are different electrical regs for caravans and outside stuff from generators.

 

Thank you! Fingers are crossed indeed.

 

It was a caravan specialist electrician who came out months ago, but I can't see how things have changed from him saying everything was okay.

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Just now, SteamyTea said:

One things, is there enough water pressure, some washing machines are sensitive to this.

 

Good point. Lots of water pressue. I don't know what the technical figures etc are for it, but it comes out of the tap pretty fast.

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Google suggests quite a few people have had issues running washing machines from generators and/or batteries. One possibility is that the microprocessor in them doesn't like the electrically noisy supply these can produce (expensive to diagnose).

 

Another is that washing machines have quite a high initial surge current every time the motor starts. If the supply can't cope the voltage might dip fooling the micro into thinking there is a fault.

 

If it works when running from the batteries and inverter can you use the generator to charge the batteries at the same time? This depends how you have it all connected.

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The inductive load of the motor will require a larger generator to start, due to starting current.

 

N&E need to be connected at the generator along with an earth rod, best get an electrician to check the electrics out but the generator is probably undersized for motors, fine for resistive loads etc.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thank you very much all! So sorry for my delay in responding, Life has been doing its thing.

 

The washing machine will start and run for a few minutes, then the F6 error comes up. It's a Hotpoint.

 

We've not tried any other genny (we can borrow a basic but powerful one to try) or running off the inverter as yet - had snow and ice and snow and ice and wind (repeat ad nauseum...).

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Some gennies can be paralleled up. Better makes like (some) Honda models allow easy synchronisation of the two. Best to have two identical models. So you have the same voltage but double the KVA.

Edited by Onoff
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23 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Some gennies can be paralleled up. Better makes like (some) Honda models allow easy synchronisation of the two. Best to have two identicsl models So you have the same voltage but double the KVA.

 

Thank you. I didn't know that could be done. We got cheap basic ones as the plan was to go to wind turbine and solar soonest possible. Now though I think we'll be going mains when they're doing them again - didn't need a holiday/car/to eat anyway :D I'll put it to husband, see if he can work with the info so kindly given here.

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  • 7 months later...

I have a Victron EasySolar inverter/charger wired to a battery bank to power an off-grid house. The 5kVA model was specified specifically to deal with the demands of a clothes washing machine in the house. Otherwise I would have got a smaller model. The 5kVA model can handle brief peaks of more than 5kW which I understand is not unusual with washing machines when the drum motor starts up.

 

The EasySolar has a 'PowerAssist' function. This is when the battery bank automatically supplies the extra power needed when a generator connected cannot manage the demand.

 

Many of the other Victron products have this same feature I think.

 

If you want expert advice on generators I can recommend petepowerblog.wordpress.com wholeheartedly. He helped me a lot and for no charge with my small petrol generator problems before we got the PV and Victron system up and running. Somewhere on his website I think he warns against damage to motors in machines when the generator is not plenty powerful enough due to the repeated slow run up time causing over-heating in the windings (but don't quote me on this).

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