Eaves tile correction - help required

[kestrel]

In the process of refitting the first three courses of tiles after doing some repairs and noticed the eaves course sits at a very shallow angle compared to the tile above it.(think this is called a sprocket?) Anyway its is possibly how water was getting under the tiles and into the eaves in the first place as i couldn't find any broken tiles or traces of water ingress from above.

 

It seems like the fascias (fitted before i lived here) are too high causing the eave course to sit at the wrong angle (too shallow). From what  I understand the fascia would need to be dropped in order to get the correct angle on the eaves but id have to also reposition the height of the soffit vents, drain pipes and fittings to suit the fascia adjustment then fill/repaint/make good  

 

I thought about trimming the top of the fascia but this section of roof has a 90° corner so id have to strip and modify that fascia so everything sits at the same height on the perpendicular run. It would also leave a weird notch at the gable end where the under cloak  sits on the last few inches of fascia and barge board so im not going to try this

 

In this situation is there any other way i can correct the angle of the eaves tiles with out having to remove all the fascias and reposition everything?

 

Could i pack out the first tile batten with plastic or wooden spacers to try increase the angle of the first tile? 

 

ps its a plain redland tile, spec'ed at 35° min pitch. Not measured the angle yet but looking at how the tiles sit, its much less than this

Edited January 1, 2021 by kestrel

[bassanclan]

A photo will tell 1000 words

[Russell griffiths]

If you look up the tile make, the manufacturer normally has details of how high the facia should sit in relation to the battens, it normally sits 20-25 mm higher than the rafter tails. 

 

Do a mock up and look look at it side on,you will soon see if they are hanging low or kicking up. 

[kestrel]

Thanks guys.

They are definatley kicking up too much as they are not far off sitting flat. 

The main thing id like to understand is if i can correct the issue without having to remove and reposition the fascias and all the associated fittings. as theres alot of it!

 

10 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

If you look up the tile make, the manufacturer normally has details of how high the facia should sit in relation to the battens, it normally sits 20-25 mm higher than the rafter tails. 

 

Do a mock up and look look at it side on,you will soon see if they are hanging low or kicking up. 

 

Took a look at the redland site and cant find anything on the pdf for the tiles

[joe90]

Some people/roofers/builders do this but I think is does not look right myself. You may be able to double up the first batten so the angle is shared with two rows of tiles. Many houses in Bristol (council house estates) did this, don’t know why but it looks ok.

Edited January 2, 2021 by joe90

[kestrel]

 

7 hours ago, joe90 said:

Some people/roofers/builders do this but I think is does not look right myself. You may be able to double up the first batten so the angle is shared with two rows of tiles. Many houses in Bristol (council house estates) did this, don’t know why but it looks ok.

 

 Joe when you say double up the batten do you mean two battens stacked one on top of the other? Wouldn't that throw off the angle of the second tile up?

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by kestrel

[kestrel]

here we go, i managed to get a couple of pics today when it stopped raining.....

just did a test fit with a batten spacer as per the original batten spacing and position

 

 

 

Then tried to shim up the first batten with a spacer underneath

 

 

Either way the first tile and the one above it look too flat of an angle

[joe90]

Duh! I can’t open those pics?

[Declan52]

Can you load the pics up on your phone/ tablet and do a screenshot and then post that.

[kestrel]

original batten spacing with the batten sitting directly on the rafter

 

 

Had a go a putting some wood shims under the first batten to try and improve the angle

 

 

 

 

the picture is not completely square on the end of the tiles but you get the idea

Edited January 2, 2021 by kestrel
additional info

[joe90]

Ah, didn’t realise they were plain tiles, different “fish” to other tiles (double lap like slates).

[kestrel]

any other ideas on the options available?

Edited January 2, 2021 by kestrel

[JFDIY]

Are you using eaves trays? Will help keep water where it should be.

 

You could use slate for bottom row, it's thinner and will kick the next tile less, just cut them to stagger joints with first row of tiles

Edited January 2, 2021 by JFDIY

[joe90]

With the facia that high the felt has no slope at the bottom, so any rainwater/condensation will pool and maybe find nail holes which will give damp in the house. So I think your only options are 1/ lower facia board, 2/ cut some off the top of the facia board 3/ take off several rows of tiles and battens and add tapered wedges to the rafters under the felt to line up better with the facia. With this option trial and error will give the right “wedge”.

 

just spotted @JFDIY idea above about slates instead of short first row of tile, worth a try (but it won’t cure pooling on the felt)

Edited January 2, 2021 by joe90

[kestrel]

30 minutes ago, JFDIY said:

Are you using eaves trays? Will help keep water where it should be.

 

 

Yes I'll be fitting trays.

 

Never had them fitted before and suffered water getting behind and running down the fascias hence me lifting the tiles/battens only to discover the eaves course was very flat

 

[kestrel]

37 minutes ago, joe90 said:

With the facia that high the felt has no slope at the bottom, so any rainwater/condensation will pool and maybe find nail holes which will give damp in the house. So I think your only options are 1/ lower facia board, 2/ cut some off the top of the facia board 3/ take off several rows of tiles and battens and add tapered wedges to the rafters under the felt to line up better with the facia. With this option trial and error will give the right “wedge”.

 

just spotted @JFDIY idea above about slates instead of short first row of tile, worth a try (but it won’t cure pooling on the felt)

 

Concerned the tiles being at such a shallow angle will prevent water run off and pooling as mentioned @joe90.

 

I might have to try cutting some of the top out of the fascia out with my multi tool.

 

Does anyone one know if there is a reference somewhere as to what the correct dimension from the top edge of the fascia to the top of the rafter should be? 

Cant see anything on redlands data sheets

Edited January 2, 2021 by kestrel

[tonyshouse]

There are thousands of roofs tiled like that, is the sideways lap ok, tile underneath, especially the eaves tile half way on the crack between the tiles on top? 

[kestrel]

20 minutes ago, tonyshouse said:

There are thousands of roofs tiled like that

So is this a common/correct way of fitting then, and importantly, does it increase the chance of water getting through and under the tiles? just seems not quite right especially since water was getting through the tiles in this exact area

I assumed this to be the cause of water running down the fascias and into the soffits after not being able to find anything else obvious above or around the area in question

 

20 minutes ago, tonyshouse said:

 is the sideways lap ok

yes the side lap looks good

 

20 minutes ago, tonyshouse said:

tile underneath, especially the eaves tile half way on the crack between the tiles on top? 

all tiles inspected and no breaks or cracks. Headlap is within spec as is the side lap

Edited January 2, 2021 by kestrel

[JFDIY]

Won't the eaves tray be under the felt, I had to cut slots in the eaves tray so I could spring it down the sides of the rafter and under the first Barton. Then I router'd an intermittent chamfer on the underside of that batton to allow water to pass, the un-routered bit (1" or so in length) maintains pressure on the tray.

 

Haven't got any photos to hand I'm afraid to aid description 

 

Edit to add, I'd try putting the first batton on edge, give more room for the tray. And also help with angle of tile

Edited January 2, 2021 by JFDIY

[tonyshouse]

It is also incredibly common for water to run down fascia boards, sometimes over the back of gutters, wind blown when guttering set too low, tracking from eaves tiles, valley gutters, general outdoor damp, mist etc 

[kestrel]

45 minutes ago, tonyshouse said:

It is also incredibly common for water to run down fascia boards, sometimes over the back of gutters, wind blown when guttering set too low, tracking from eaves tiles, valley gutters, general outdoor damp, mist etc 

Ahh  i see, so its a common way of fitting that creates a common problem

[bassanclan]

Are the eaves tiles going into a parapet gutter or a traditional fascia? I'm not clear where the fascia is on your pics

[kestrel]

13 minutes ago, bassanclan said:

Are the eaves tiles going into a parapet gutter or a traditional fascia? I'm not clear where the fascia is on your pics

Traditional fascia and gutter

 

In the pics the fascia is below the underlay.....its hidden by the underlay as ive not trimmed it down yet

Edited January 2, 2021 by kestrel

[bassanclan]

Fitting strips should have been fitted to the rafters when it was built.

Approx 400mm long tapering from 40mm at the fascia to nothing.

You can retrofit, but would mean stripping a lot to make it match.

 

[kestrel]

6 hours ago, bassanclan said:

Fitting strips should have been fitted to the rafters when it was built.

Approx 400mm long tapering from 40mm at the fascia to nothing.

You can retrofit, but would mean stripping a lot to make it match.

 

 

 

Never heard of this before. Does it do a similar job as a tilting fillet?