Automist Fire Suppressor

[Ferdinand]

A couple of questions about the Automist water mist fire suppressor.

 

1 - Is Automist still essentially a monopoly for mist systems, or are there any alternatives?

 

The cost of the head seems eyewatering, and for several floors each or one or more rooms prohibitive.

 

2 - What do they call it in Germany?

 

Ferdinand

[Jeremy Harris]

I've been digging around, but can't find it on this PC, but I do know that we looked at fitting a mist system, and the only reason we didn't was the price.

 

I'm sure that somewhere on Ebuild there is a discussion on mist fire suppression systems, and I'm also sure there was more than one option.  I'll try and see if I can find the thread in the archive, as it may help.

[warby]

http://www.plumis.co.uk/automist.html

http://nfswatermist.systems/automist-smartscan/?gclid=CjwKEAjwy8bABRD5osXMovTHpmQSJACfZY0F90caV1otJccs_mqmKOW4UztOVOim6aKbX3qgGe3ysBoCvm_w_wcB

[mike2016]

There was a northern ireland based company doing watermist who estimated @ £3K in late 2015, but when I went to meet them at an exhibition late last year they never turned up to it or returned any phonecalls.....! 

 

I've kept a link to the following article as it appeared to offer an alternative who would travel to ireland if I could afford it, more expensive however:

 

http://www.cjwalsh.ie/tag/water-mist-system-or-a-sprinkler-system/

This is the company that the link in the article now redirects to:

http://www.orangefiregroup.co.uk/low-pressure-water-aqua-mist-fire-suppression-system.html

 

No affiliation and I've never talked to them as I doubt I can afford to incorporate it without loosing my roof....water of a different kind would be my problem then!

 

I've done a good bit of searching but in Ireland anyway, they are all targeting commercial and cost 5 figures +

 

I suppose if it became law like in Wales for domestic new builds there would be lots of suppliers and costs would be more competitive. I'm just going to have to stick with my 30 minute fire protection plasterboard etc where I can.....and gloop watergel on all my internal surfaces....

 

Update: added Wales into my searches as there are several companies operating in this area there, one covers the whole of the UK:

http://www.imist.net

Might be worth checking out! 

Edited January 29, 2017 by mike2016
Updated links to Wales search results

[lineweight]

I am bumping this thread because I am wondering if some issue has come up with these systems.

 

When I look at the info on the Plumis website they mention an LABC Assured Detail (EW171) but the link to this brings me to an LABC page that says

 

*Certification suspended pending review*

 

https://www.labc.co.uk/business/labc-assured/ew171-plumis-automist-automatic-fire-suppression-device

 

So does this mean that using these systems eg. to allow open plan entrance storeys in 3-storey dwellings has been called into question? Is this something Grenfell related?

[Temp]

Call them and ask?

 

I could only find this..

 

https://www.labss.org/news/30-october-2020-mist-systems-registered-details-are-suspended-pending-review

 

 

[Adsibob]

On 29/01/2021 at 19:08, Temp said:

Call them and ask?

 

I could only find this..

 

https://www.labss.org/news/30-october-2020-mist-systems-registered-details-are-suspended-pending-review

 

 

I see that this is published by the LABSS (Local Authority Building Standards Scotland) which claims to be "a not-for-profit membership organisation representing all local authority building standards verifiers in Scotland. Our members are dedicated to protecting the public interest delivered by public sector expertise to ensure buildings are safe, accessible, dry and warm." To me, and I my be wrong, this looks like protectionism, because they are not saying that you can't use these systems, they are saying "any proposal should be considered only as an alternative approach with full evidence submitted to prove compliance". It's a way of generating fees for their members. I knew that for an open plan system with no fire door separating the kitchen from the entrance hallway and bottom of stairwell I would need a mist system or a fire curtain. But my BCO won't accept a mist system without a fire engineering report. The fire engineering report is going to cost £1200 plus VAT. Absolute bonkers.

 

Given that I'll be going down the mist system come what may, I thought I would report what I've learned:

 

A 6 nozzle system that will cover the 80% or so of my ground floor which is open plan is going to cost about £4k plus VAT. Crazy for six nozzles, some pipework and a pump. But their customer service seems very good and they are going to provide me with their stats on false alarms to reassure me that their system really is decent. Works on a heat sensor that needs to sense a temperature of at least 68C to activate the mist. Mist goes for a maximum of 30 minutes. Apparently, even if there was a false alarm, the amount of moisture released by the mist would only take a day or two to dry out from most things. But one thing I didn't like was the annual service charge of £250 a year. Seems excessive. It's not like a boiler that is constantly being used and so might need the occasional tune up.

 

The imist nozzles are 88mm in diameter, so small but not tiny. If anybody knows of a mister system with smaller nozzles I'd be interested to know.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Adsibob

[Mr Punter]

19 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

I see that this is published by the LABSS (Local Authority Building Standards Scotland) which claims to be "a not-for-profit membership organisation representing all local authority building standards verifiers in Scotland. Our members are dedicated to protecting the public interest delivered by public sector expertise to ensure buildings are safe, accessible, dry and warm." To me, and I my be wrong, this looks like protectionism, because they are not saying that you can't use these systems, they are saying "any proposal should be considered only as an alternative approach with full evidence submitted to prove compliance". It's a way of generating fees for their members. I knew that for an open plan system with no fire door separating the kitchen from the entrance hallway and bottom of stairwell I would need a mist system or a fire curtain. But my BCO won't accept a mist system without a fire engineering report. The fire engineering report is going to cost £1200 plus VAT. Absolute bonkers.

 

Given that I'll be going down the mist system come what may, I thought I would report what I've learned:

 

A 6 nozzle system that will cover the 80% or so of my ground floor which is open plan is going to cost about £4k plus VAT. Crazy for six nozzles, some pipework and a pump. But their customer service seems very good and they are going to provide me with their stats on false alarms to reassure me that their system really is decent. Works on a heat sensor that needs to sense a temperature of at least 68C to activate the mist. Mist goes for a maximum of 30 minutes. Apparently, even if there was a false alarm, the amount of moisture released by the mist would only take a day or two to dry out from most things. But one thing I didn't like was the annual service charge of £250 a year. Seems excessive. It's not like a boiler that is constantly being used and so might need the occasional tune up.

 

The imist nozzles are 88mm in diameter, so small but not tiny. If anybody knows of a mister system with smaller nozzles I'd be interested to know.

 

Why not just get sprinklers?

[Adsibob]

13 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

 

Why not just get sprinklers?

I thought there were two downsides to sprinklers:

1. in the event of a false alarm there is much more damage to the property;
2. they require more water, which may mean a bigger pump or a bigger cylinder for storage.

[Mr Punter]

1 minute ago, Adsibob said:

I thought there were two downsides to sprinklers:

1. in the event of a false alarm there is much more damage to the property;
2. they require more water, which may mean a bigger pump or a bigger cylinder for storage.

 

The sprinkler heads are very reliable.  They don't cause more damage to your property than a fire or a visit from the fire brigade with hoses on full pelt.  If a fire breaks out, only one sprinkler head would normally actuate.  You may find that an existing water supply will suffice.  Failing that, you could get a dedicated sprinkler supply connected.

 

Once you have the system connected, it is up to you whether you have it checked and cough up £250 a year.  Nobody will be around to arrest you if you don't.

[Adsibob]

36 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

They don't cause more damage to your property than a fire or a visit from the fire brigade with hoses on full pelt. 

I don't disagree with this. But they do cause more damage than a mist. The mist system is more efficient in terms of water use because a mist has a much greater surface area to volume ratio compared to the droplets from a sprinkler. According to imist at least, their mist system runs for 30 minutes which should be plenty of time for the fire brigade to get there and by the time the fire brigade gets there most fires are usually out anyway.

[Mr Punter]

25 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

I don't disagree with this. But they do cause more damage than a mist. The mist system is more efficient in terms of water use because a mist has a much greater surface area to volume ratio compared to the droplets from a sprinkler. According to imist at least, their mist system runs for 30 minutes which should be plenty of time for the fire brigade to get there and by the time the fire brigade gets there most fires are usually out anyway.

 

I think they may be OK for smaller areas but not so much for whole house, so that could work for your kitchen.  I know of the mist systems going into kitchens in student housing.

[dpmiller]

2 hours ago, Adsibob said:

I see that this is published by the LABSS (Local Authority Building Standards Scotland) which claims to be "a not-for-profit membership organisation representing all local authority building standards verifiers in Scotland. Our members are dedicated to protecting the public interest delivered by public sector expertise to ensure buildings are safe, accessible, dry and warm." To me, and I my be wrong, this looks like protectionism, because they are not saying that you can't use these systems, they are saying "any proposal should be considered only as an alternative approach with full evidence submitted to prove compliance". It's a way of generating fees for their members. I knew that for an open plan system with no fire door separating the kitchen from the entrance hallway and bottom of stairwell I would need a mist system or a fire curtain. But my BCO won't accept a mist system without a fire engineering report. The fire engineering report is going to cost £1200 plus VAT. Absolute bonkers.

 

Given that I'll be going down the mist system come what may, I thought I would report what I've learned:

 

A 6 nozzle system that will cover the 80% or so of my ground floor which is open plan is going to cost about £4k plus VAT. Crazy for six nozzles, some pipework and a pump. But their customer service seems very good and they are going to provide me with their stats on false alarms to reassure me that their system really is decent. Works on a heat sensor that needs to sense a temperature of at least 68C to activate the mist. Mist goes for a maximum of 30 minutes. Apparently, even if there was a false alarm, the amount of moisture released by the mist would only take a day or two to dry out from most things. But one thing I didn't like was the annual service charge of £250 a year. Seems excessive. It's not like a boiler that is constantly being used and so might need the occasional tune up.

 

The imist nozzles are 88mm in diameter, so small but not tiny. If anybody knows of a mister system with smaller nozzles I'd be interested to know.

 

LABC over here (and probably over there too) use the infos in the Approved Documents as deemed-to-satisfy. They're simple ways to comply with the requirements of the actual  BRegs and other solutions will be accepted when suitably justified. They gain no additional funds from you choosing and justifying another route...

[Tony C]

https://www.labc.co.uk/business/labc-assured/ew534b-plumis-automist-smartscan-hydra

This is the current certificate with LABC.

Other watch out for installing Automist is that some Approved Inspectors would not accept Automist in certain circumstances.

In my case I ended up moving the Building control from Approved Inspectors to LABC half way groundwork stage. (Pain!!)

I guess Approved Inspectors are nervous anything to with fire regulation after Grenfell.