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Heating, Hot water, ASHP, and Sunamp Design Needed


Triassic

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I'm now at the stage where I need to install the UFH system (pipes are already designed and in),  hot water (first fix complete - H&C pipes from manifolds to taps installed), ASHP and buy and install a Sunamp (sized, just need to buy it). Oh, and install the solar panels, the inverter and Eddi unit.

 

Digging back through all my plumbing and heating notes and drawings,  I'd had an idea to install something similar to the system Jeremy Harris designed for his place. I've now found that Jeremy and his House at Orchard Mill web site have gone off line.

 

Has anyone got any current bast practice layout drawings, or web site links, they could point me to? I work best when I have a drawing, rather than a written description!

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Jeremy's system was, initially, simple.  HP for the space heating and a vented cylinder for the DHW.

He did have a fairly complicated control system, but he junked that early on.

He then got a Sunamp. This was partly because he had high heatlosses from the cylinder that was overheating his spare room.

As his Sunamp was an early one, it was fairly easy for him to plumb it in, but, he wanted to take advantage of his HP and integrate it into his PV.

This meant plumbing it in with a plate heat exchanger that preheated the DHC before it entered the Sunamp.  The plate heat exchanger drew from his buffer tank (I am starting to think that all HP systems need a buffer).

If I remember correctly, this worked pretty well, until the Sunamp went wrong.  Then his problems started, and now have no idea if they have been resolved.

This was, as far as I know, a problem with the newer Sunamps and the lack of 'user interfacing.

 

One problem with any system that stores energy for later use and has multiple inputs i.e. HP, PV and Grid Power, is that there will be many times when you cannot take advantage of two of them, let alone all three.

This goes back to my statement that space heating and domestic hot water need to be separate systems, they do different things, ant different temperatures and at different times.

The 3D's.

Edited by SteamyTea
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3 minutes ago, PeterW said:

But thought you were going for a Sunamp..? 

I am going Sunamp. Mind you, i've not bought it yet.

 

I was just mulling over alternative options! This happens when you come back to your hot water design after 18 months!

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11 minutes ago, HerbJ said:

his  later mods for the SUNAMP. 

Herb, thanks for posting Jeremy's later Sunmap layout, I had the earlier out of date version. Am I correct to say he didn't actually use the Stiebel Eltron inline heater? It was only a backup?

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Just now, Triassic said:

Am I correct to say he didn't actually use the Stiebel Eltron inline heater? It was only a backup?


he sold it to @ProDave as he had never used it with his original Sunamp. Then the new one arrived and they started running out of hot water (oops). 

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All of the little minor niggles with SunAmp are what pushed me to an UVC. I was originally going the SunAmp route when I considered this a couple of years ago under the assumption that by the time I came to buy the issues would be sorted. They don't seem to be, so ASHP --> UVC is now my way forward. The G3 certification is a barrier I could have done without, but tis what it is?‍♂️

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  • 2 months later...
23 minutes ago, Triassic said:

I’ve finally got to the point of buying a Sunamp! This self build is really slow when your doing it all yourself! 
Who is selling Sunamp to self builders? 


Very few...!! Midsummer Wholesale still do them, they have a few older UniQ 12s too on clearance. 

 

https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/sunamp-heat-batteries/sunamp-uniq-12

 

Assuming you want to fit this yourself, as the choices now they have done a deal with Fischer seem to be quite limited for supply only.  

 

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On 06/02/2021 at 16:47, Triassic said:

I’ve finally got to the point of buying a Sunamp! This self build is really slow when your doing it all yourself! 
Who is selling Sunamp to self builders? 


Have you seen the prices they want for these things. I’m still on the fence, but a UniQ12 is 3x the price of an equivalent UVC. 
 

My worry is still about running out of hot water and not having a fall back as simple as switching on an immersion. During lockdown, the timing of DHW across the household, really went out the window. I ended up having the UVC on call for heat whenever the tank temp dropped below 48c, from 7am to 4pm. In a household of 5, the showers were spread very randomly across the day and the idea of all DHW water needs being satisfied by 8.30am just didn’t cut it. 
 

The Sunamp seems simple, but how does it accommodate for the above scenario. If the answer is to overspec the Sunamp, the costs are even greater. 
 

When I first researched this I thought I understood the Sunamp, but now it seems to be described like a classic economy 7, electric hot water system, with a better insulated tank. If you have to turn it on in the day, where are the cost savings? 
 


 

 

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On 08/02/2021 at 23:12, Nick Laslett said:

UniQ12 is 3x the price of an equivalent UVC. 

You are right about the price, but you don’t mention the price of the unit to heat the UVC. When you add that into the mix you must be at the same price or greater? Mind you, Sunamp prices do appear to be on the up and the number of stockist on the way down! I contacted three fir prices and only one came back with a price, £3,300, a £600 increase over a quote I got a year ago.

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I was looking at the SunAmp for my DHW but have well and truly abandoned that idea now. For me the negatives still outweigh the pros.

 

The only downside for UVC and ASHP as I can see is the G3 element. Yes standing losses are higher but its going into the heated envelope so I don't see it as an issue.

 

How is a SunAmp better? The only pros I can see are self install and less heat loss. So if the heat loss is a non issue that leaves self install. If you can find a G3 certified plumber to sign it off there is nothing to stop you doing most of the install.

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3 minutes ago, LA3222 said:

If you can find a G3 certified plumber to sign it off there is nothing to stop you doing most of the install.

Or as a compromise, you can get all the pipework to the area, put the cylinder in place, etc. Then the G3 engineer just has a simple job of connecting and commissioning. ?

 

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If I remember correctly @Jeremy Harris originally went Sunamp because of overheating from his DHW tank.the door to his plant room warped with the heat. I have not suffered from this at all. In fact my airing cupboard is barely different from the house but I do store DHW at 48’. I also bought a Stiebel unit which is still in the loft as a back up but I think without PV, ASHP and well a insulated DHW tank works very well. My local plumber signed of the G3 fir me (I did get him to commission it fir me).

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34 minutes ago, joe90 said:

If I remember correctly @Jeremy Harris originally went Sunamp because of overheating from his DHW tank.the door to his plant room warped with the heat. I have not suffered from this at all. In fact my airing cupboard is barely different from the house but I do store DHW at 48’. I also bought a Stiebel unit which is still in the loft as a back up but I think without PV, ASHP and well a insulated DHW tank works very well. My local plumber signed of the G3 fir me (I did get him to commission it fir me).

Joe, out of interest, which ASHP did you go with and who supplied it?

 

I had contacted three Sunamp distributors for prices for the UniQ12 and only one got back to me. I then contacted Sunamp to ask if there was a problem with their distributor network, as a result two of the three are no longer listed on the web site.  Sunamp had tried to position their product as a mainstream replacement for a Boiler, UVC set up. It appears to be moving towards being a premium niche product.

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39 minutes ago, Triassic said:

Joe, out of interest, which ASHP did you go with and who supplied it?


ah ha, Kingspan (5Kw carrier unit) Ebay!!,!, I took a punt, £850 delivered still on original pallet. Kingspan briefly went into the ASHP market re branding standard carrier units but sold up fir some reason. My MVHR was the same, only paid a couple of hundred for it. Ebay is king (sometimes?).

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